Past Lives Matter.
Gretchen Whitmer. Tim Walz. Gavin Newsom. Andrew Cuomo.
These governors came to the national attention because of their response to Covid.
And their response says everything about their leadership styles.
Whitmer and Wolz lockdowns were complete and total.
The state constitutions were suspended.
Those who ignored their decrees were arrested.
This was all done, we were told, to save lives.
What happened was exactly the opposite.
The lockdowns were supposed to save the lives of the elderly virus most affected.
We knew that then, and we know that now.
Children were locked out of school, fell behind academically, and were crushed emotionally.
Businesses were devastated.
All this to protect grandma.
And yet in their great wisdom, Wolz and Whitmer ordered that infected elderly people to be herded into the same long-term care buildings as healthy seniors.
They cited “data and science” that did not exist.
It does now.
A recent study showed that such facilities had 73% percent higher death rate.
Minnesota suffered ~ 8,000 nursing home deaths, 52% of the state’s total — the worst in the nation…except Michigan.
We don’t know the true total here in the Wolverine State because the Whitmer administration never bothered to count, and never bothered to verify.
She claims ~ 7,000 such deaths But Michigan has nearly doubled the population of Minnesota.
The true deaths are probably nearer to 14000 by my estimate.
Much worse than Cuomo’s New York.
We need and deserve an investigation, but our attorney general promises we will never get one.
Politics played with the lives of people.
This election is as much about the past as it is the future.
We need leaders who understand their roles in a democratic republic.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Gretchen Whitmer, Tim Walls, Gavin Newsom, Andrew Cuomo. These governors came to the national attention because of the response to Covid, and the response says everything about their leadership styles, Whitmer and W, their lockdowns were complete and total. The state constitutions were suspended. Those who ignored their decrees were arrested. This was all done. We were told to save lives. What happened was exactly the opposite. The lockdowns were supposed to save the lives of the elderly whom the virus most affected. We knew that then, and we know that now. Children were locked out of school, fell behind academically, and were crushed emotionally. Businesses were devastated. All this to protect grandma. And yet, in their great wisdom walls and Whitmer ordered that infected elderly people be herded into the same long-term care buildings as healthy seniors. They cited data and science that did not exist. Well, it does now, A recent study showed that such facilities had a 73% higher death rate.
(01:14):
Minnesota suffered approximately 8,000 nursing home deaths. 52% of the state’s total the worst in the nation except Michigan. We don’t know the true total here in the Wolverine state because the Whitmer administration never bothered to count and never bothered to verify. Whitmer claims 7,000 such deaths. But Michigan has nearly doubled the population of Minnesota. So how do we have less when we were doing the same thing, the true deaths are probably nearer to 14,000 by my estimate. Much worse than Cuomo’s New York. We need and deserve an investigation, but our attorney general promises that we’ll never get one. Politics. Were played with the lives of people. So this election is as much about the past as it is the future. We need leaders who understand their roles in a democratic republic
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Live from downtown Detroit is the no bullshit news hour with my main man, Charlie and Karen Dubs.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
No
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Bullshit.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Just breaking this double bullshit, Don. More bullshit.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Hey, care. Hey Charlie, I’m getting weirded out. I can’t watch anything now. I can’t go on Twitter, mark. I can’t do it. It’s just weird. Like what? This presidential race, like Kamala Harris is becoming Donald Trump. You watch the commercial like, okay, we’re going to close this border on day one. The Republicans wouldn’t let us close it, or I’m going to tackle flex on a day one. You’re the vice president now. I don’t even know who’s the president or she’s now saying, we’re going to abolish tips for people in the hospital. It’s Donald Trump. Without answering any questions.
Speaker 6 (03:33):
It’s a very strange election cycle. Let me say it that way.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
It’s different. I mean, six months ago, I mean we were talking a couple of days ago, democratic Party wanted to run Kamala Harris out on the rails. She’s the worst vice president ever. And now, best thing since sliced bread and can’t answer a question,
Speaker 6 (03:52):
That was a conversation over a year ago, confidentially circulating in DC It was so, I mean, it’s been a strange series of events.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So you don’t win a vote. The Democrats refuse to hold the fair primary RFK Jr. Who quite possibly could have won. It is not allowed in it.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
Well, I and I, I can’t remember the quote. It was a former president, but they were saying, by the time you see everything in politics, it’s already been decided. None of this is random. None of it is organic. It’s all very deliberate. It’s all very controlled. And this probably is the first time I’m really, really, I say the second time that I’m really, really seeing it.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
And if you really look, Trump doesn’t have any economic plan drill, baby drill is not going to balance the budget.
Speaker 6 (04:43):
We can’t drill that much anyway.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Exactly. You’d have to have 200 Exxons and appropriate all of their money in order to cover the deficit. You know what I mean? Cut tax for the rich. That’s what got us in this shit.
Speaker 6 (04:55):
But we are in an era where saying it makes it so nobody questions. If you do question, then you’re a critic. You’re being negative. Now. I think people are in a position in their lives where they truly wonder what is going to happen and how, because you’ve been promised so much for so long without any results. I think people justifiably have a right to question. It’s a
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Fucking game show nobody’s questioning. I mean, even Bobby Kennedy sat in that chair and I’m the first one to ask him, well, what’s your economic policy? Green is the deal. He said. Then what he’s saying now, which is I’m going to cut the military from 900 billion to 500 billion in four years, and we’re winning a $2 trillion deficit due. China’s buzzing Taiwan, Iran, Israel’s on Highler because Iran’s going to strike right,
Speaker 6 (05:51):
Ukraine, Russia,
Speaker 1 (05:52):
What happened to our service people that were hit by Iranian proxies in Iraq a week ago? We don’t even know. Ukraine just invaded Russia and we’re cutting what? Nobody got. Shit.
Speaker 6 (06:07):
It’s killing me. Nobody’s connecting the dots. Nobody’s asking. Nobody’s doing their homework. Nobody is remembering past the last soundbite for anybody,
Speaker 1 (06:18):
And the media seems unaware. Look, the public’s not going to hate you if you come up with facts, you come up with real questions. It’s funny to listen to them say, well, you get in there and ask the hard questions. No, no, no, no, no. You should know the answer to the hard question, right? So when they answer Emptily, you’re able to hit ’em with the, it’s the follow-up that matters.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
The media used to be like the teacher that was coming back into the room after going out and the class was acting out. When you knew the teacher was coming back in, you straightened up. You knew that you were going to be held accountable. But now the media is more like a dinner date and it’s not any sense of accountability or fact checking or anything. They’re
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Dumb. I’m sorry.
Speaker 6 (07:09):
I think they’re playing the game to stay in it. That’s what I think has, I don’t, they’re dumb
Speaker 1 (07:13):
To keep the little audience they have
Speaker 6 (07:14):
Left. I think they’re playing the game to stay in the game.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Look, here’s what’s going to happen for Harris. Okay, whatever. Vote for it. I mean, I’m not going to yell at you. We’re all Americans, but you can hide all you want. And then one interview or two debates doesn’t let me know if you know the difference between monetary policy and fiscal policy. It’s not good enough for me, but I do know that nothing good’s going to happen. For instance, prices aren’t going to fall right? They’re not going to go negative. They’re not returning. The stock market is not going to explode. It can only implode with everything going on in the Middle East and in Ukraine and Russia. Oil prices can only go up, and if they go down, that’s because the economy’s collapsed. We’re not using oil. So the economic Middle East isn’t going to cease. Ukraine won’t cease, right? The border won’t close. You’re still bringing in people on the app and people won’t go home.
(08:14):
But there’s a real threat of terror for those that you let in, which is, I didn’t even plan that segue, but remember we did the story about the guy on the terror watch list that they caught at the border and he was corpulent and they were afraid he would get Covid, so they gave him and his family tickets to Dearborn. Well, there’s a new report out now. We’ve picked up 400 people on the Terror Watch list on the southern border. A hundred of them have been allowed to settle in the United States. And this report from the House Judiciary Committee quotes our work right here, quotes our work is this Venezuelan and Metro Detroit, an asylum seeker or suspected terrorist. He was the first known instance of the federal government allowing people with high derogatory scoring to be allowed in here. So what was the point of us doing it? We tried to tell the audience, we tried to tell Congress this shit’s going in and now 99 others,
Speaker 6 (09:18):
That’s where we are, Charlie.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
So what’s awaiting us?
Speaker 6 (09:21):
Who knows? And I think that’s the scary part about it. I don’t think people know what to expect, and I think that in some instances, being made to feel good is being switched out for being better.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So we all know Trump very well. We don’t know anything about Bobby Kennedy, and we’re only now starting to learn something about Tim Walls. The vice presidential candidate under Harris and his time is the governor and congressman and sergeant major of the Minnesota National Guard. Here’s the deal. The guy did 20 years in the Minnesota National Guard after nine 11. He re-upped for six years, not four, and he didn’t serve 24 years. He served 23 and three quarters, and that quarter year is important.
Speaker 6 (10:15):
Why?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Because it is now fact that the Sergeant Major or whatever his rank actually was, knew early in 2025 or 2005, that Minnesota, his unit, his battalion was going to Iraq, highest ranking enlisted men walks away because Obama, Andrah Manuel and the Democratic National Committee find a new class of Democrat warriors. So he’s intoxicated by Congress and he leaves his guys. Now, I’m not going to do thank you for your service, okay? He’s a national guardsman. It says 20 years, 25 days a year. You got the GI Bill, you got medical, you got insurance, you got a paycheck, you got retirement. I don’t thank people in the armed forces for enlisting because it becomes a career. It becomes a direction in life. You get a paycheck, a
Speaker 6 (11:18):
Benefit.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
You get a lot of benefits. I thank every single one of them when the candle lights off and it’s time to do what you’re trained for, which is war. Thank you for honoring your commitment to us, for honoring your oath and going right. That’s a hard thing to do. And this man didn’t do it. Am I wrong? Mark, what’s your opinion?
Speaker 7 (11:45):
Oh boy. I mean, yeah, I understand that. I was never in the military, so I think it’s impressive doing anything. But combat is a far different animal, and I don’t like people pretending he had the whole thing about the weapons he carried into war, which he admitted it was a lie. So yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of things to question him about there. It’s like every politician, you use it when it’s to your advantage and you run away from it when you think you’d get hurt by it.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Donald Trump that he did, his bone spurs in his heel. But you know what he did? The bone spurs in his heel. You didn’t want to serve. You didn’t serve. You did a lot of guys in that generation and you dodged it. My dad didn’t dodge it. My dad went in into serves because it was a way to order his life. After he was 18 and left high school,
Speaker 7 (12:30):
My dad got drafted. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Did your dad serve? Yeah. Or did he run to Canada?
Speaker 7 (12:35):
No, he served in Germany in the late sixties for three years.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Oh, which reminds me, okay, he went to Italy Walls in his battalion. Right? In support of operation, enduring Freedom. No, it’s very important. Your expeditionary ribbons, right? The war on terror. If you were stationed in Italy,
Speaker 7 (12:58):
You don’t get one.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
That wasn’t part of operation. That wasn’t support for Operation Enduring freedom it, it matters to military people and family of military people. It should matter to everybody because if you’re the heartbeat away guy, and this is how you react, this isn’t the guy I’m looking for.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
But see, for people that don’t know, they hear just what’s said and they respond to that. So if the media
Speaker 7 (13:26):
Or it’s a beauty
Speaker 6 (13:27):
Pageant, well, yeah, and I’m saying, but if nobody is fact checking and the whomever is speaking is not being brutally honest, then all you have to walk away with is just,
Speaker 7 (13:38):
I mean, he could have been a real shitty teacher too, but all we know is that he was a teacher. You know what I mean? Which is part of the beauty pageant. He checks all these boxes, but how were you at those jobs? He was the governor of Minnesota. How were you at that job?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And you suspended the Constitution for a year and a half in Minnesota, right? You were late to the Floyd riots. It’s obvious now,
Speaker 6 (14:05):
But I saw them celebrating that he named, had a day named in Minnesota after Prince, and he signed it in Purple Ink.
Speaker 7 (14:11):
Well, that’s kind of cool.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
Well, I know it is. We
Speaker 7 (14:13):
All love Prince, right?
Speaker 6 (14:14):
That’s part of the beauty we do, and it is cool, but I’m saying these kinds of things we need to separate.
Speaker 7 (14:21):
That’s just my point. It’s all about the veneer of who’s running, right? It’s how they look and
Speaker 1 (14:27):
How they’re proceed. Yeah. Buck glasses and purple ink. This is what we get. Yeah, look at that. That’s cool. These problems are so
Speaker 6 (14:33):
Deep. Charlie, do you know how much we were in the store today? Do you know how much a box of cereal, the price on the box of a cereal? It was $10. What? For a box of cereal.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
You know this crazy mean? A pack of cigarettes and a six pack
Speaker 7 (14:48):
25
Speaker 1 (14:50):
In there between 20 and 25
Speaker 6 (14:52):
For cigarettes,
Speaker 7 (14:53):
And it’s
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Cigarettes are 10 now.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
Yeah, I don’t smoke, but I didn’t. That’s a lot of money. Everything is so expensive that life is expensive. Life is expensive,
Speaker 7 (15:03):
And you’re right, prices will never go down. Once prices are raised, they don’t ever go
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Down. So that’s not a winner. When Corin, Jean Pierre is saying Harris was there every step of the way with Biden. That’s not something you want to say. Right? Meaning fully involved with this.
Speaker 7 (15:22):
I mean, for some odd reason, that’s something she wants to say. She doesn’t work for her election campaign, which I would think Kamala’s election campaign would be like, shut the fuck up. I mean, they pretty much said that to Biden last week when he had a slip of the tongue about, oh shoot, it’s escaping me right now. But it’s something that, it’s like we’re not dealing with that right now. You have these two different entities. You have the executive branch in an election campaign, and they don’t mesh. She’s not going to be working for
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Her, and we know he’s a shell, so let’s just get rid of that. Right? Oh, I know. Okay, so Ukraine’s invading Russia. Who’s in charge? Great question. Was it handed over to Harris?
Speaker 7 (16:01):
No.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
No. She’s running a campaign. It’s our autopilot. This is, and then you look at it is on autopilot, and then you look at, that’s why I stopped watching. Here’s a commercial that Slotkin is running on. Mike Rogers, the former head of the Congressional Intel Committee. Right? Deep State Spook. Okay. He went off to Florida and bought a mansion. He doesn’t even live here. He went off to Florida and bought a mansion.
Speaker 7 (16:30):
Pretty funny commercial. So funny that they filed a cease and desist against it.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Why did they? I didn’t even know that.
Speaker 7 (16:37):
Yeah, I’d have to look it up again. Just because they believe the allegations are false.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Well, the other hand,
Speaker 7 (16:43):
I mean, meanwhile, it’s already ran a million
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Times slot kid never voted in a Michigan election until she moved back here in 2017 and she jumping congressional districts, moved into a lobbyist condo, got elected, and then moved back out of the district to the family farm. They’re
Speaker 7 (17:00):
All the
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Same. And she’s deep state CIA. Thank you for rocking. I run. What are we getting?
Speaker 6 (17:06):
Remember you talked to about part of her commercial where she was talking about the insurance. On one hand she said that her mom, right, had no insurance, and then she said she spent time wrestling with the insurance companies. So did she not have insurance or was she wrestling with the insurance companies? But you talked about her mother’s first husband and her second husband both that had pretty well secure positions that probably had insurance.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah. Well, no, that’s Witmer’s father and stepfather, and then Slotkin father,
Speaker 6 (17:38):
Slotkin father.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Right. Stepfather in that one, but exactly, just pandering because the decisions they made have ruined us, and they want to pretend like they’re part of the fallout, not the fuse,
Speaker 6 (17:50):
But whose fault is it? Is it the candidate’s fault for pandering or is it the electorate Exactly for buying into it so much? I mean, I would think that if in fact your vote were so important, you’d demand more.
Speaker 7 (18:05):
I don’t blame the electorate though, because it’s quite exhausting to keep up on all this stuff when you feel like you’re being fed a bunch of lies. It’s like, well, why am I going to waste my time with this?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Well, I’m not even going to blame the media. I’m going to blame the executives in the media because the rank and file we do as we’re told. We’re not going to go there with, oh, we’re going to have Brian Brown, the attorney for Michael Jackson Anos, the man accused of murdering Samantha Wall. We’re told what’s expected to be brought back to the newsroom. We know better. We’re just not allowed to say it. So now we all realize how I important.
Speaker 7 (18:47):
All you have to do there is look at local politics.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Oh God. Right?
Speaker 7 (18:51):
Not to get you started, but
Speaker 1 (18:52):
I mean, yeah, like local politics. Like Detroit ranked 149th out of 149 major American cities and livability or Detroit and the state, Whitmer and Duggan gave a half a billion to Chrysler, who turns around and merges with STIs for an East side factory. But then the one in Warren is going to shut down and 2,500 people are out on their ass.
Speaker 7 (19:16):
Shell game.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Shell game. That’s what it’s While ago you brought him in, former mayor and industrialist, Dave Ming came in and goes, this is bullshit. It’s a shell game. We’re never getting those jobs. We got swindled. The rich get richer and the poor get children, and we can’t afford to feed them because $10. And speaking of gruel update on the Joe Biden guardianship.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
Speaker 7 (19:45):
Are you bringing ’em in? Breaking
Speaker 1 (19:46):
News, our request, our paperwork with the Superior Court probate division of the Circuit of Washington dc Our request for emergency guardianship of President Joe Biden has temporarily been rejected, as we did not include a $45 check for the filing fee.
Speaker 6 (20:14):
Oh, really?
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Now, it doesn’t say that on the website, and nobody picks up the phone at the probate court in dc. But we have filed an immediate and emergency paperwork with the $45 check. So we would keep you updated on that. And when we come back, Brian Brown, prominent, now prominent Detroit attorney, a word from our sponsors,
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Speaker 1 (21:07):
Well, when it rains, the power goes out. And when the power goes out, the internet goes out. When the internet goes out, I call my friend Matt and Bernie at XG Service Group. Look at Bernie here on his hands and knees, giving it everything he’s got. Look at that man crack so busy. He forgot to wear a belt. There’s Matt right there getting the board together. That’s 7 3 4 2 4 5 4100. If you need Matt and Bernie to come take care of your voiceover internet, your security cameras, off campus, access control, wifi, and cameras for homes and business, they’ll design it for you. You got restaurants. They do drive through systems, railroad cameras for public safety, total wireless camera systems for your home and business. Yeah, that’s right. Call xg services at (734) 245-4100 and time for the live reads. The politicians lie to you. The media lies to you.
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Speaker 6 (24:33):
Oh, wow. So your mom was there to support you. Yeah, she was there. That’s good. That’s a proud moment for her. Okay.
Speaker 9 (24:37):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
She told me at a, because you’re a hell of a lawyer, appreciate that. Really impressive. And his mom was telling me that when he was a young man, maybe an older boy, that he got in some trouble and he was going to get his spanking. And by the time she got home, he had drafted up a proposal, a plea deal as it were. Is that true?
Speaker 9 (25:02):
Yeah, I think that’s true.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Did you get the whooping?
Speaker 9 (25:06):
Probably did. Maybe. I’m not
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Sure. Got the hanging
Speaker 9 (25:09):
Judge. I’m not sure I’ve done that. I’ve tried to talk my way out of a lot of different things. Sometimes it works, sometimes it didn’t.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Now, in this one first degree murder, your client, Michael Jackson Lanis was charged with in the eight time stabbing of Samantha Wall.
Speaker 9 (25:28):
That’s correct.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Last month, I think it was. The jury found him not guilty of that, and they were hung on basically second degree murder. Right. Felony.
Speaker 9 (25:39):
Felony murder, which is first degree murder also, but it’s felony degree, first degree murder, which is different than first degree premeditated murder
Speaker 1 (25:46):
And home invasion.
Speaker 9 (25:46):
And home invasion. But you
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Wisely went through your law books and you found United States versus Yeager.
Speaker 9 (25:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Which says, if you’re, tell us what that means. Basically, if you’re acquitted of first degree murder within that decision,
Speaker 9 (26:03):
Right. Basically if there is an acquittal of a particular charge and there’s a hung jury on another charge which shares the same elements, then they cannot be retried on the charge that they were hung on.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
They’re really good. And so the judge dismissed that
Speaker 9 (26:23):
Reluctantly. Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yes. Which I found amusing because the Wayne County assistant prosecutors are grandstanding. We kind of blew this case. They’re grandstanding like they’re going to take this all the way to the United States Supreme Court. Well,
Speaker 6 (26:35):
But they have to, Charlie, I mean, you got to remember, there’s a lot of emotion around this crime, if you will. And you said the final chapter, not necessarily a final chapter, final chapter for you and your client because there’s still an unresolved case, and I’m sure her family wants some type of closure, but
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah. Well, they didn’t get ’em on the home invasion, so they had to throw that out because
Speaker 9 (26:59):
They already argued that under issue preclusion. So double jeopardy has another prong to it, which is issue preclusion, which is a little bit different than double jeopardy by itself. Keep it safe. So basically if they argued it in trial, they can’t argue it again. So they already argued that he tried to do a home invasion. The predicate crime under that home invasion was assault.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
They were arguing that he broke into the house because his motivation was he wanted to hurt her. Yes. That’s why he went into the house, not to rob her. Correct. Which was dumb.
Speaker 9 (27:29):
Very
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Dumb.
Speaker 9 (27:30):
And we thought about that too when they was asking for those jury instructions, me and my co-counsel, and I’m like, okay, that’s going to kind of maybe come back to haunt them under that theory that he went into the house to do the assault opposed to doing the larceny. So they
Speaker 6 (27:45):
Did. Do you think they just underestimated you?
Speaker 9 (27:49):
Possibly? I think so. I think they probably thought they had it in the bag, and I don’t think they really saw the evidence the way it should have been viewed. I think they just say, oh, we just have two specks of blood on his coat. So he must have done it. He was in the area. He’s the thief. He’s a liar. The jury’s going to believe that.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
And they didn’t.
Speaker 9 (28:07):
And they didn’t.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
So let me ask you before we get to ultimately what happens to Michael Jackson? Ano, what a name Michael Jackson. Because he was moonwalking through Detroit trying to bust in the cars. It ended up costing him. But afterwards the jury tried. They tried hung jury. I don’t know why they didn’t hold him over. They let him go for the, it was sort of the Trump deal. I never seen that either. What did the jury vote in terms of guilty or not guilty on murder home invasion? You got to talk to the jury afterwards.
Speaker 9 (28:41):
Off the top of my head, I can’t remember. I know my co-counsel, she wrote it down. I know the majority was not guilty as far as the exact numbers. I can’t recall because they had a poster board that they basically had different numbers on from different days in respect to different charges. So
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Was it six? Six?
Speaker 9 (29:05):
Some of, I believe one was maybe 9, 8, 5, 8, 4, I’m sorry. Or maybe nine three if I’m not mistaken. I think that might’ve been that on the felony murder. I think it was maybe closer on the home invasion. I think the home invasion might’ve been, and don’t quote me on this, maybe seven, five, but to my understanding it was, am I remembering it was a majority of not guilty?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
The reason I ask is because, so I’m not crazy. I mean, if you stand back and you take a look at what the prosecution offered it, they blew this
Speaker 9 (29:38):
Case. Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
So what is your client was convicted of lying to police, which I’ve been covering crime a long time. I knew if you lie to a federal agent,
Speaker 6 (29:55):
I had a police officer say, well, if that’s the case, everybody would be in jail.
Speaker 9 (29:58):
Everybody. Yes, everybody lies to the police just denying culpability who doesn’t go in there and just deny culpability. I don’t think that’s enough to, first of all, convict them or even charge ’em, because I’ve been doing it for a while too, and I’ve never seen somebody just get charged with lying to the police. Now it’s different if you file a false police report and you make the police go on all these different errands and expend a whole bunch of resources in order to investigate your lies. Like if you say, Hey, I got carjacked, but you parked your car down the street or something like that. So they went on this long quest to try to find who carjacked you to find out that you were lying. Yeah, you’re going to get charged. Or if you’re on the stand and you commit perjury, that’s a little different. But just going inside the police station and they say, Hey, we think you did this. And you said, no, I did not do that. That should not be enough. Basically just exerting your innocence. You got a right to be proven guilty. You got a right to be innocent to proven guilty.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Well, he admitted. He did. He admitted. And so what did the judge sentence him to? He’s already done about nine months in jail. So it was a time served.
Speaker 9 (31:11):
It is not going to be, I mean unfortunately it should have been time served. That was the recommendation from the Michigan Department of Corrections was to be time served and him to serve probation. But the judge went beyond that and she sentenced him to a minimum of 18 years, to 18 months, I’m sorry, to 15 years.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
This has been a precedent setting case in so many ways. I mean, we think about the boyfriend that was allowed to testify with immunity and
Speaker 1 (31:39):
After
Speaker 6 (31:40):
Calling the police, after calling the police and saying that he did it, the issue surrounding lying to the police, and now this seems excessive. Is he still detained?
Speaker 9 (31:50):
Yes, he, he’s still detained. And I would agree. It definitely sounds and appears and is excessive. I’ve never seen any type of census even remotely close to that. Unfortunately. Yes, he is still detained. They’re going to be transferring him over soon to the Michigan Department of Corrections where they’ll classify him and give him an earliest release date.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
So you could appeal it. But by the time this thing gets to the appellate court and they take a look at it, it would,
Speaker 9 (32:19):
It’s possible. It’s possible it
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Would be 22 months.
Speaker 9 (32:22):
It’s possible that during appeal, which appeal is still going to go through. But it’s possible that by the time a court does hear that appeal and makes a ruling on that appeal, he could very well be at home. We’re hoping he’s at home as soon as possible.
Speaker 6 (32:37):
So is it when the interest kind of dies down and the dust settles and maybe he’s likely to get out? I mean, because this was No,
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Can I answer that? Can I? No. Sure.
Speaker 6 (32:45):
Attorney ton.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I’ll answer it Lauff. I’ll answer it because he, the truth of the matter is there’s no fucking way they’re letting him out in 22 months. Right. Why? Because the family’s engaged. She was prominent, and the powers of bee are going to try to keep this guy in for five years. Because what I saw in that courtroom was a case that was an absolute shit pile from the prosecution. It was terrible. I’m one half looking at after his client, what he was doing that night. That side of the police did a fantastic job. But looking at what the boyfriend was doing that night, they dropped the ball. So the family doesn’t get justice. Samantha doesn’t get justice. His guy gets a maximum 15 years for lying to police. Crazy. I’ve never even heard of. It’s crazy. And you think they’re going to let him out in 22? The family won’t stand for it. Am I wrong?
Speaker 9 (33:48):
The family definitely doesn’t want him to be released. The family would like him to spend the rest of his life in jail. I think that’s clear. I don’t believe that they saw, I think they had tunnel vision. They didn’t see the evidence for what it was. I guess they just believed just because the prosecutor told them that the prosecutor felt that it was my guy who did it, then therefore it must be so, and they just didn’t really even want to hear any evidence to the contrary. Now, as far as him being released, I would hope that the Michigan Department of Corrections parole Board would not try to use acquitted conduct in order to try to have him remain because he was acquitted of that. So they can’t really legally and in good conscious morally use the fact that he beat those cases against him in trying to make him remain, especially for a low level non-violent offense.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
The judge, in my opinion, bailed out the system that collapsed here. Could you imagine he’s let go that day. Justice is not equal. It’s not not
Speaker 6 (35:04):
Blind either.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Imagine letting him out. So that wasn’t going to happen. So I’m listening to the judge say, well, looking at your past record for card fevery and what you were doing that night trying to get into cars, it was fascinating to me. She’s taken this into account, but the prosecution never charged your guy for breaking into cars. Now, had they done that and he admitted it. Well, he is the habitual, isn’t he?
Speaker 9 (35:33):
Yeah, he’s a habitual. And you’re right. They did not charge him. They could charged him, but they chose not to charge him. And I believe the only reason why they charged him with lying to the police was in an attempt to assassinate his character. So when he does go to trial, they can say, Hey, this guy is a liar. He’s a thief. Just like in the closing, the prosecutor counted how many times he lied. This is lie number 35. This is lie number 36. Yeah, he admitted he lied. So they basically just wanted to just assassinate his character. So if he’s a liar, he’s a thief. He must be a murderer. And I think they also did it in a way to confuse the jury somewhat, because the jury may thought that, and some people may still think that he was convicted of lying about what happened to Samantha Wall. Just to be clear, they charged him with lying to the police involving an investigation about larcenies from vehicles. So they asked him, were you doing these larcenies with vehicle
Speaker 1 (36:28):
That he wasn’t charged? Charged
Speaker 9 (36:29):
With? Yeah. And he wasn’t charged with Absolutely. So saying all of that, they just did that. Like I said, just to throw mud on his name,
Speaker 6 (36:44):
And I know this may be a loaded question, but how was he ever afraid? Was ever, did he feel confident in his innocence throughout this? He never wanted to just kind of say, sometimes people that aren’t guilty are willing to try to take a plea deal and they just go along. Was he comfortable and confident in his innocence? Oh, he
Speaker 9 (37:04):
Was very confident. He was a hundred percent confident in his innocence. And I was also, now at times he got a little nervous just because you are putting your faith into the hands of one, this system from which we know is not always fair and not even half the times fair sometimes. And you putting your faith into the hands of strangers who don’t know you, who looking at you, and they’d be like, okay, you look a particular way. You were out there doing bad things as far as stealing. You lied to the police. So therefore, some people may think that, oh, that makes you a murderer if you did A, B, and C. Right.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
I still say, I’m just going to be honest. It’s highly probable in my mind that your client saw the door open, went in there, saw all the blood, turned right around because the sensor went on and off, saw her, touched her, saw she was dead and got the hell. You can’t. I know what you’re going to
Speaker 9 (38:02):
Say. Absolutely not, because I’m going to tell you why that is, but
Speaker 1 (38:04):
They couldn’t prove that. So what’s going on here is, well, let me give you two to 15. Right? You shouldn’t have been out there and it’s,
Speaker 6 (38:15):
But they didn’t charge him with doing what he was out there doing. Well,
Speaker 1 (38:17):
He didn’t charge him, but it was
Speaker 6 (38:19):
Dismissed. I’m saying, I mean, for the vehicle.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
No, what I’m saying is they charged him from going in the apartment, and the jury’s like, you don’t have it.
Speaker 9 (38:29):
He couldn’t have went into the apartment. First of all, even if your theory that he saw the body outside, he knew
Speaker 1 (38:35):
He saw the door open, went in, saw the blood, went, holy shit, turns goes out, then sees the body, goes, holy shit. Then touches it goes, holy
Speaker 9 (38:44):
Shit, she’s dead. Even in that order, it doesn’t make sense because if he would’ve went inside to trigger the motion, the motion detector is all the way in the back of her apartment. So he would have to walk all through this blood shoot prints through this blood. Those would’ve been visible. He would’ve had to walk through pools of blood in order to get to
Speaker 1 (39:08):
The, he could have gone through the kitchen, stayed against the wall, went through the kitchen, then looked in there and went, oh my
Speaker 9 (39:13):
God. But there was blood by the door though, so there was blood right by the front door. So he would have to step in that blood.
Speaker 6 (39:19):
So you didn’t see or couldn’t see the body from going into the door. Where was the body positioned? The
Speaker 9 (39:27):
Body was two apartments down. But if you’re standing outside, outside, yeah, outside, outside. But if you’re standing by her door, you couldn’t really, you might not being able to see her because there was some shrubbery
Speaker 1 (39:37):
There. There’s a head about chest high. So you wouldn’t be able to see anything. Okay.
Speaker 9 (39:40):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Oh, okay. So again,
Speaker 9 (39:44):
He never went into, just to be clear, he never ever stepped foot. The only time he’s ever saw the inside of her apartment is when I showed him pictures from the discovery. That’s the only time you’ve ever got
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Glance. Just at the time. He’s messing around with cars in her parking lot. Her motion detector goes off just when he’s there instantly and goes off. So is that a night owl? Was that a vampire bat? Was a no,
Speaker 9 (40:11):
That was her leaving. And it’s like this guy, he’s avoiding contact all night. You see him hiding in the shadows from people walking outside. He’s running from noises. Why would he ever walk into a lit? The light was on. Why would you ever walk into a lit apartment in Detroit? You don’t know who’s in there. Somebody could be in there having a gun party cleaning their guns. You’re not going to just walk into an apartment where you don’t know who’s in there at night. And you’ve not been doing that at all. No footage of him even looking in an apartment.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
The fact is, there’s just, there is an evidence and you have to draw conclusions. And again, this thing fascinated me. And even if I believe that that’s the truth, no. Even if I believe what I think I got to look at what you gave me,
Speaker 6 (41:02):
But I’ll tell you this too. I’ve had my alarm sensors triggered by spider. I mean, that’s also, I know that seems crazy, but depending on how sensitive it is, if there’s a bug or a spider that crawls across that sensor, it can trigger that sensor.
Speaker 9 (41:17):
It’s possible. Yeah. Strange
Speaker 6 (41:18):
I’m saying mean it’s, it’s happened.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Nobody’s been convicted of Samantha Wall’s murder.
Speaker 9 (41:25):
I guess nobody probably will. It’s too late to go after Hersman. I doubt they will. Any evidence that he had, even though they should reopen this case, they very well should. Could they? They could. Now. Will. They won’t. That’s another question. Won’t, because any evidence that they would’ve had is long gone. Whatever he was wearing that day, they should have went to the synagogue extracted video, should have talked to witnesses there. They didn’t do that. Any video at the synagogue that’s long gone. Any witnesses they could talk to, they don’t remember what he was wearing. And if he had the clothes he disposed of, he could have burnt it in his fire pit, which nobody took pictures of. Nobody examined, didn’t examine his bike. I mean, it’s
Speaker 1 (42:03):
So now to be clear, we’re not accusing him, not accusing him. I’m not. You’re just
Speaker 6 (42:09):
Saying. You’re saying examine. He
Speaker 9 (42:11):
Accused himself.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Right. Let me say this for obvious reasons. In no way are we accusing anybody of murder. Just these are really odd and interesting and to me, sort of historic elements, right? You’re calling the police and I may have inadvertently done it. I don’t remember. It’s just odd to overlook. Please, you have to allow me to do this. I am going, video wasn’t tracked. There’s enough question. Okay, so we’re not accusing anybody,
Speaker 9 (42:45):
Even though that guy in that photograph looks very,
Speaker 6 (42:48):
Very, but my thing is
Speaker 9 (42:50):
Similar,
Speaker 6 (42:52):
But my thing is that why not? If you’re really looking to find an answer, and maybe he’s not the answer, but why don’t you, wouldn’t they want to examine every possible element of the case that could lead them to the guilty party. That’s all I’m saying.
Speaker 9 (43:12):
Absolutely. I would agree. They did a very, very thorough investigation when it came to my client as far as tracking him down, sending his clothes in, his knives in for every test and analysis imaginable. But for Mr. Hirschman, they did not. And that’s like, I don’t know how you wouldn’t be able to, or why you wouldn’t blow up the picture of this person running away and then examine it and possibly put it next to why would we have to, why would me and my co-counsel have to do this? Why would they not do this? That’s elementary police
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Work and that’s why you’re good. I couldn’t believe it. I was like, look what he came up with. You didn’t treat your client like a bag of clothes. It was really thorough. So you naming your law firm.
Speaker 9 (44:02):
B legal.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
B legal. Yep. Want to give the number?
Speaker 9 (44:06):
Three? 1 3 6, 7 1 4 1 3 9. It’s
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Brian Brown. The, I know you’ve been around a while, but the circumstances is not the right word, but new star of the legal system here in greater metropolitan area for real. Now, just real quick before we go, what was the doctor, the surgeon, Devin Hoover. What was his name? Dude, Devin. Yeah, I got it here. Detroit neurosurgeon, Devin Hoover, who was found murdered in his attic, wrapped in a car pit with one sock on and naked. Turns out his lover for hire has been charged. The guy was going around the world with his credit card, took his watches, they allege, but this was a year ago. And the prosecutor in this case took her time, right? Yes. So you in the legal world, I mean, you’re hearing it. This is what you expect, right? If you don’t have it all, you wait and you continue on.
Speaker 9 (45:15):
That’s correct. You collect evidence and you talk to witnesses, and you make sure that before you go forward with the charges, that in your mind you can prove these charges that they point to the person that you are charging. So obviously at the time, I’m not going to say obviously, but apparently at the time that he was originally questioned, they didn’t have all the evidence they have now as far as maybe a surveillance, different witnesses, text messages, text messages, some of those things take a while to gather with search warrants. And then you have to sift through ’em. My understanding, they had a mountain of evidence as far as surveillance, text messages, so many different phones that were seized. So you got to go through all of these different phones, terabytes worth of evidence, and thoroughly sift through those and analyze it before you go forward.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
This guy, there was no FBI there.
Speaker 9 (46:20):
It might’ve been. I mean, a case like this, I believe, from my understanding that there was a multi-state investigation from at least four different states. So if I had to assume it’s four different states involved, I’m sure the FBI was involved because I’ve had multiple cases where the FBI will assist Wayne County as far as a phone, extractions and or phone mapping.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Well, who killed Tamara Green, strawberry Green. I didn’t get any task force like this.
Speaker 9 (46:52):
Yeah, I guess it all depends on the case, who the individual is, who’s accused of committing the crime when it happens, where it happens. A lot of variables going into,
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Come on, Brian. He got to choke to the courthouse. Well, what’s this guy’s name? Desmond Burkes. Has he called you?
Speaker 9 (47:16):
No, he’s calling me. No, I haven’t heard. Only thing I’ve heard from the case is basically from the news. So I haven’t heard anything
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Firsthand. This was a fascinating case. It was interesting to watch you and good luck in future endeavors. Appreciate it. Ryan Brown. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Well, his guy’s doing two to 15 and I knew it too. I knew it. I told my wife they’re going to hit him again.
Speaker 9 (47:42):
Oh, everybody knew. In back of my mind, I kind of suspected I was hoping that she was going to go with the recommendation of probation, but I guess she just couldn’t help herself.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
And there’s a moral to this story. When the cops pick you up, ask for a lawyer and then shut the fuck up. Absolutely. Alright, well till next week, you’ll watch never to vote off it.
