No BS Newshour Episode #359
The Gangster of Journalism
Before there was TikTok.
Before there were influencers.
There was Vice.
And Michael Moynihan was Vice. The OG of online video news.
(0:04) Remembering Mickey.
(7:14) What Moynihan is doing now. His new show.
(18:39) Democrats are lost in space, but are Republicans really the new party of the working man?
(36:18) Irony of Irony- How the new aged hipsters killed Vice.
(47:19) Murder and Mayhem: Detroit is little better than the Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez.
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Subscribe to NBN on Spotify
Transcript:
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A lot of guys my age are struggling with the idea of
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self-destruction.
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Suicide has reached a level of crisis in America,
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the scientific papers say,
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brought on by the COVID-19 pandemic and its aftermath.
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The scientific papers cite factors like isolation and
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economic hardship.
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But that’s just a fancy way of saying life hasn’t worked
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out for some guys in my generation.
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Not the way we were trained to imagine our older selves
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when we were boys anyway.
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All of you,
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if you’re struggling,
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you’re worth something,
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you know.
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I wish I could have said that to my friend Mickey.
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My friend took his life last week.
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He wasn’t the first friend to do that over this past
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He wasn’t even the second.
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My friend’s name was Mickey.
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Mickey’s letter arrived at my home a few days after
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he ended it all.
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He wanted to explain things.
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He wanted to apologize.
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I’m sorry,
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the letter began.
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I will be discovered in the garage behind my car in
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the recycle bin for ease of removal.
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That really struck me.
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Mickey, always the urbane and cultured man,
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had literally thrown himself away for ease of removal.
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In the letter,
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Mickey detailed how he had exhausted his savings and
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was unable to find meaningful work after being dismissed
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from his job during the pandemic.
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Mickey had worked for three decades in international
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trade and logistics.
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Now, having reached the upper limits of middle age,
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the phone wasn’t ringing anymore.
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He was broke,
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and the credit card companies were squeezing him.
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Combined with the significant loss of confidence and
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hope, I’ve given up,
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he wrote.
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This is not the position I expected to be in at this
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point in my life,
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and there’s simply too much to continue.
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Mickey left just enough for the cremation.
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Please don’t hang up,
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Just a bit more.
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Mickey had no wife,
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no children,
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no live-in lover that I know of,
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but he had friends and family who loved him.
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Depression can make you blind,
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I suppose.
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And why didn’t we see Mickey’s depression?
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The grind of day-to-day difficulties tends to dull
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the senses,
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I suppose.
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So Mickey spent his last hours addressing envelopes
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and scratching out his own obituary.
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Imagine that,
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sitting by yourself,
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writing your own obituary.
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I suppose this is my attempt at his epigraph.
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That would read,
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Mickey was a decent and honest man.
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If you feel you’re at the end of the rope,
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friend, or if you’re considering a rope or a rubbish
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bin, please don’t.
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Just call someone.
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That’s all.
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Just call and talk.
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Start with that.
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Because if the meaning of life is to be found in one
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another, then without you,
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Life will have less meaning for those you leave behind.
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So long, Mick.
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The world’s a poorer place without you,
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but I am richer for having known you.
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Live from downtown Detroit,
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it’s the No Bullshit News Hour with my main man,
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Charlie and Karen Dumas.
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Just breaking up.
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Dumb or bullshit.
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Dumb or bullshit.
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My dear friend Karen is off for the week.
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Let me remind you that if you’re an entrepreneur looking
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for a safe and socially responsible real estate investment,
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Consider contacting Archangels Senior Management.
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Senior living is one of the fastest growing markets
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in America,
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and Archangels offers small communal living for senior
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citizens in homes right inside our own neighborhoods.
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It’s the antithesis to the cold corporate nursing homes
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we’ve all now heard so much about.
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The care is genuine,
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the owners are local,
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and Archangel has overwatch.
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If interested in this trailblazing opportunity,
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contact Joe LeBlanc at Archangel at 989-614-0416.
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I want to remind you that while the politicians lie
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to you and the media lies to you,
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how do you know if your investment statements are
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lying to you?
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Remember, you’re not managing your wealth.
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That’s some unseen guy working for a big bank,
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jockeying some unknown algorithm.
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Call Luke Nowacki at Pinnacle Wealth Strategies.
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You should know your money,
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He’ll tailor a financial plan specifically for you
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from annuities to retirement accounts to college savings.
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He’ll keep you up to date and always a phone call away.
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Let Luke Nowacki worry so you don’t have to.
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Luke Nowacki,
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248-663-4748.
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And it’s opening day next Friday.
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And I wouldn’t go down to the ballpark and eat illiches,
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overpriced bullshit hot dogs.
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I would come to American Coney Island
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the oldest family-owned restaurant in Detroit,
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and it being Friday,
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still Lent,
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you have these beautiful fish sandwiches.
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That is Pacific Pollock.
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As you all know,
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I worked on the boats and the canneries in Alaska.
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Pacific Pollock,
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flaky, delicious,
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hand-battered the very morning.
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Fresh lettuce,
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tomato, cheese,
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and a nice bun.
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American Coney Island at the corner of Lafayette and
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Michigan Avenue,
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You can always get a Coney kid sent to your house.
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Just go to americanconeyisland.com.
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Now, speaking of suicide,
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let’s talk about career suicide here.
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We got Michael Moynihan,
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one of my favorite guys all time in the media.
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You know him from the Free Press,
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his podcast,
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The Fifth Column,
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and probably most famously,
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you know him from Vice News on HBO.
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That guy was just
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tripping across the world doing real shit.
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What’s up,
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How are you,
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How’s it going,
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Good to see you,
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So the name of the,
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just real quick,
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you know,
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I just wanted to bullshit with you,
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but you got something to pitch.
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It’s the Moynihan Report.
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Want to explain what it is?
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Yeah, now it’s a new show that I’m doing.
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You know, Vice,
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obviously the wheels came off that.
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Yeah, we’ll get to that.
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We’ll get to that.
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Yeah, and I wrote a long obit for that for the Free
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Press like last year.
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But yeah, rather than traipsing around the world and
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doing whatever the hell I wanted,
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now I’m in a studio in Brooklyn and we’re doing it
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twice a week at 4 P.m.
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And then you can see it,
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you know,
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after when it’s archived.
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But yeah, it’s just,
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it’s a show that’s not just politics.
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I mean, the free,
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the Fifth Column,
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which is a pretty popular podcast that I do,
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all about politics.
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This speaking of depression,
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last episode we did yesterday was with Laura Delano,
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who has a new book out about how she was deeply,
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horribly depressed and then took out every pharmaceutical
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under the sun and managed to get off of them and thinks
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they’re horrible.
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So we had her on to talk about it.
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And you know,
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we’re just doing all sorts
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That’s a different cool stuff.
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Actor Ethan Soupley is going to come on next week and
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talk about his transformation in life.
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So yeah, we’re doing all sorts of stuff,
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not just Poland.
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Now looking at the trailer,
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Jason, our mutual friend from Vice,
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clipped up.
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You’re also going to take this thing on the road,
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Like you’re in Poland looking at the fence.
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Yeah, that’s unique.
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Yeah, so that’s the thing that we’re trying to do is
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that it’s unfortunately,
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as you know,
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Charlie, being a longtime journalist,
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journalism is really expensive.
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And, you know,
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we’re trying to find ways to get out there and actually
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do the reporting like the stuff that I used to do
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So we, Jason and I went to Poland and we did two pieces
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while we were there,
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one of which was about immigration.
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You know, Donald Trump saying build a wall and send
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the military down to the border.
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That’s what the Poles did.
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And so we went out to the border with Belarus,
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where the dictator of Belarus,
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Alexander Lukashenko,
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was sending migrants across the border to sort of
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try to destabilize Western Europe.
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And so they responded by building an enormous wall
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and sending the military out there.
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And a couple of the Polish guys have been killed out
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there too,
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one by a migrant last year.
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So it’s a pretty interesting story,
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particularly in Poland,
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that has a different
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They don’t have an immigration issue that sort of Germany
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does or Sweden does.
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So we went out and did that.
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It’s like completely fascinating.
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So, I mean,
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that’s kind of,
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you know,
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the podcast and everything.
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The show’s unique in this way too.
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You’re on two way.
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You know, I had to look that up.
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So it’s two ways an app.
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It’s a, you know,
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it’s it’s.
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It’s just a platform that’s on YouTube and going to
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be expanding to other things too.
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But the kind of flagship show there was Mark Halperin.
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You might remember him,
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the political journalist.
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He wrote Game Change,
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which I guess was probably one of the biggest political
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books of the like 2000s,
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which was about the McCain,
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Obama campaign,
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became an HBO series too.
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But he does a show twice a day live.
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And he does it with Sean Spicer,
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was, you know,
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Trump’s press secretary on the right and Dan Turrentine
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on the left.
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And they just have people on,
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they have like strangely civilized conversations.
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And all of Mark’s pals in the political world come
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on and, you know,
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00:09:52,320 –> 00:09:54,560
look, Mark broke the news that Biden was dropping
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Like he’s still a reporter.
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00:09:56,240 –> 00:09:57,800
So he does that stuff every day.
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00:09:57,800 –> 00:09:59,680
And that was becoming popular.
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And the platform decided to expand.
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So I hopped on board.
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And yeah, the part of the show is at the end of the
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show we do,
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00:10:07,920 –> 00:10:09,360
it’s like an old drive time radio show.
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You take calls from people and it’s just.
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And they pop in like Zoom.
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They pop in like Zoom.
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And so you did the first one.
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We’ve done 2 now.
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Yeah, first one was with Anthony Weiner.
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Yeah, let’s take a look at how this,
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the two-way works there,
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If you got that clip here.
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I wonder if you also take responsibility for helping
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elect Trump in 2016,
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because I recall it’s because your emails were found
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on your wife’s laptop that we had the October surprise.
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So, you know,
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with all due respect,
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do you feel a responsibility for that,
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00:10:42,960 –> 00:10:46,000
for shifting from votes away from Hillary to Trump?
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00:10:46,640 –> 00:10:50,400
Yeah, that’s some that I’ve heard this crazy butterfly
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00:10:50,400 –> 00:10:51,840
effect theory of this before.
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First of all,
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let me just say this.
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You could blame me.
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00:10:54,800 –> 00:10:56,880
You can blame John Podesta for having,
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you know,
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00:10:58,000 –> 00:10:58,320
you know,
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password one is his password on his emails that led
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to a lot of this.
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00:11:03,120 –> 00:11:04,800
You can argue it was James Comey.
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They had my laptop for for a month and a half.
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And they knew what was on it.
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00:11:11,040 –> 00:11:13,360
And they knew that what was on it was a duplicate of
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something that Huma had.
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So they had it for months.
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00:11:16,880 –> 00:11:21,640
Somehow Rudy Giuliani and people at the FBI said that
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00:11:21,640 –> 00:11:23,520
there was stuff on there and said it’s going to come
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00:11:23,520 –> 00:11:25,840
out any day now and it comes out 10 days before.
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00:11:26,000 –> 00:11:27,520
You can blame me.
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00:11:27,760 –> 00:11:30,480
You can blame Hillary for not going to Wisconsin as
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much as she maybe she should have done.
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Look, I don’t
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I mean, you can make the argument,
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but all I was was the tool that was used by whoever
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the, you know,
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00:11:42,160 –> 00:11:45,240
there was the Trump administration found that there
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00:11:45,240 –> 00:11:47,960
were active efforts by the Russians to influence the
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00:11:47,960 –> 00:11:49,880
election in favor of Donald Trump.
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00:11:50,080 –> 00:11:53,440
But yes, I was a person who did have a laptop.
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I will stipulate to that.
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But it wasn’t nothing.
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00:11:56,200 –> 00:11:58,080
I mean, he’s not asking a totally crazy question.
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00:11:58,480 –> 00:12:01,120
No, it’s but it’s it’s why it was what it was actually
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00:12:03,680 –> 00:12:04,880
So that’s,
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00:12:06,400 –> 00:12:07,920
you don’t know what you’re going to get when you’re
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00:12:07,920 –> 00:12:08,720
playing around like that.
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00:12:08,760 –> 00:12:11,520
No, a guy in front of a green screen that looks like
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00:12:11,520 –> 00:12:15,120
he’s in Turks and Caicos asking Anthony Weiner about
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00:12:15,760 –> 00:12:18,320
is the butterfly effect that you gave us Donald Trump
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00:12:18,320 –> 00:12:20,280
is a pretty good question.
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00:12:20,280 –> 00:12:23,760
I mean, I didn’t ask him that up front because I actually
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00:12:23,760 –> 00:12:26,120
have heard Weiner’s answer on that like 100 times.
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00:12:26,680 –> 00:12:28,800
And he’s right in some way too,
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00:12:28,800 –> 00:12:29,760
but he’s wrong in other ways.
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00:12:29,840 –> 00:12:32,080
But the Russia stuff is not.
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00:12:32,760 –> 00:12:35,640
Does anybody remember who Anthony Weiner?
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00:12:35,760 –> 00:12:36,400
Do you know who that is,
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00:12:37,040 –> 00:12:37,680
Oh my God,
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00:12:37,880 –> 00:12:38,480
Unfortunately,
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00:12:38,480 –> 00:12:40,240
I remember probably too much about it.
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00:12:40,240 –> 00:12:43,040
Because I know who Carlos Danger and Sidney Leathers
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00:12:44,800 –> 00:12:46,320
Who is he real quick in the.
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00:12:47,040 –> 00:12:48,200
Carlos Danger was.
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00:12:48,200 –> 00:12:49,280
No, who’s Anthony Weiner?
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00:12:49,440 –> 00:12:52,400
A former representative from New York City got busted
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00:12:52,480 –> 00:12:55,760
sending a picture of his wiener and his underwear
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00:12:56,080 –> 00:12:58,000
to a Sidney Leathers and got,
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00:12:58,000 –> 00:12:59,920
I think, investigated by Congress.
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00:13:00,240 –> 00:13:02,440
and then comes back five years later and actually commits
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00:13:02,440 –> 00:13:04,800
a crime or an alleged guy.
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00:13:05,120 –> 00:13:05,920
Yeah, he was convicted.
350
00:13:05,920 –> 00:13:11,120
He spent time in prison of sexting with an underage
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00:13:11,600 –> 00:13:13,680
And that’s what led to the seizure of the laptop.
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00:13:14,160 –> 00:13:17,800
And so he’s running for New York City Council.
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00:13:17,840 –> 00:13:18,400
Basically,
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00:13:18,400 –> 00:13:19,360
Wiener popped up.
355
00:13:21,480 –> 00:13:23,360
He pulled out and now he’s popping up again.
356
00:13:23,640 –> 00:13:25,280
Yeah, the wieners popped out again.
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00:13:26,080 –> 00:13:26,600
Man, Mark,
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00:13:26,600 –> 00:13:28,800
that’s a perfect description.
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00:13:28,800 –> 00:13:30,000
You’ve remembered that exactly.
360
00:13:30,000 –> 00:13:30,960
I know too much about it.
361
00:13:31,440 –> 00:13:32,000
That’s amazing.
362
00:13:33,360 –> 00:13:35,920
I’ve even seen Sidney Leather’s adult film.
363
00:13:35,920 –> 00:13:36,600
So I mean,
364
00:13:37,540 –> 00:13:39,220
That is something you don’t want to admit to.
365
00:13:39,220 –> 00:13:40,860
No, it’s all research.
366
00:13:40,980 –> 00:13:41,260
That’s fine.
367
00:13:41,660 –> 00:13:43,140
Yeah, no, that is right,
368
00:13:43,140 –> 00:13:45,340
because the crazy thing about Wiener is that he’s
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00:13:45,340 –> 00:13:46,580
seven-term congressman.
370
00:13:46,580 –> 00:13:47,740
He didn’t finish the seventh term,
371
00:13:48,220 –> 00:13:49,900
but started at city council.
372
00:13:49,900 –> 00:13:52,220
Now he’s back at the bottom and he’s running for city
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00:13:52,220 –> 00:13:55,660
council in a kind of postage stamp-sized district
374
00:13:55,660 –> 00:13:56,300
in the East Village.
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00:13:56,940 –> 00:13:58,860
Which does that include?
376
00:13:58,860 –> 00:14:00,020
Because on your show,
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00:14:00,020 –> 00:14:02,780
he said he’s taking a gamble that New York really
378
00:14:02,780 –> 00:14:04,020
is an anti-Semitic,
379
00:14:04,020 –> 00:14:06,380
but you’ve got the new school down there.
380
00:14:06,380 –> 00:14:07,740
You’ve got NYU.
381
00:14:07,780 –> 00:14:09,660
I mean, you know,
382
00:14:10,100 –> 00:14:10,660
and that’s the thing.
383
00:14:10,660 –> 00:14:11,340
When a guy says,
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00:14:11,340 –> 00:14:12,460
I’m gambling.
385
00:14:13,820 –> 00:14:15,980
To me, what that says is he doesn’t really,
386
00:14:17,660 –> 00:14:19,900
you don’t know what’s going on.
387
00:14:20,140 –> 00:14:22,620
You know, I’m looking at the state of American politics
388
00:14:24,620 –> 00:14:25,820
There’s such a disconnect,
389
00:14:26,060 –> 00:14:28,220
The Democrats are wandering around.
390
00:14:28,620 –> 00:14:29,740
We got to get on message.
391
00:14:29,740 –> 00:14:30,060
It’s like,
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00:14:30,140 –> 00:14:34,420
no, maybe you need some new representation where you
393
00:14:34,420 –> 00:14:37,340
don’t have to get on message or you go on a listening
394
00:14:37,900 –> 00:14:38,700
You’re from it.
395
00:14:39,020 –> 00:14:43,420
Because the answer is the last four years sucked.
396
00:14:44,220 –> 00:14:46,540
The Democratic socialism sucked.
397
00:14:48,100 –> 00:14:48,900
I mean, and this is,
398
00:14:48,900 –> 00:14:51,300
I mean, they think that AOC is the answer.
399
00:14:51,420 –> 00:14:52,540
They’re wrong about that.
400
00:14:52,540 –> 00:14:53,020
And by the way,
401
00:14:53,020 –> 00:14:54,740
she’s been around for a long time too.
402
00:14:54,740 –> 00:14:57,180
I mean, I interviewed her on the Vice show on the day
403
00:14:57,180 –> 00:14:57,740
that she won,
404
00:14:57,740 –> 00:14:59,340
the day that she beat Joe Crowley.
405
00:14:59,660 –> 00:15:01,900
And if they think that she’s a young,
406
00:15:01,900 –> 00:15:02,700
fresh voice,
407
00:15:02,700 –> 00:15:04,060
they’re wrong about that too.
408
00:15:04,380 –> 00:15:04,780
No, I mean,
409
00:15:04,780 –> 00:15:09,820
the party comes off of four years of the most absurd.
410
00:15:10,220 –> 00:15:11,980
I mean, the fact of the matter is that people remember
411
00:15:11,980 –> 00:15:13,420
the end of the Biden campaign.
412
00:15:13,820 –> 00:15:15,540
This is the thing that you have to go back and watch
413
00:15:15,540 –> 00:15:17,660
because it drives you fucking crazy to see
414
00:15:18,020 –> 00:15:21,260
and MSNBC and people like Joe Scarborough and Mike
415
00:15:21,260 –> 00:15:22,260
Barnacle and these people saying,
416
00:15:22,260 –> 00:15:22,420
you know,
417
00:15:22,420 –> 00:15:23,420
I saw him,
418
00:15:23,420 –> 00:15:24,460
he’s spry.
419
00:15:24,860 –> 00:15:26,220
He could outrun us.
420
00:15:26,220 –> 00:15:29,060
He’s the Jesse Owens of the Democratic Party.
421
00:15:29,060 –> 00:15:29,980
He’s A sprinter.
422
00:15:30,260 –> 00:15:30,660
And it’s like,
423
00:15:30,660 –> 00:15:31,740
are you guys fucking kidding me?
424
00:15:31,940 –> 00:15:32,540
And beyond that,
425
00:15:32,540 –> 00:15:34,300
like people saying that he should be on Mount Rushmore,
426
00:15:34,300 –> 00:15:36,860
if they should add another space for how great Joe
427
00:15:36,860 –> 00:15:37,340
Biden’s been.
428
00:15:37,660 –> 00:15:39,500
And then you look at the record and you’re like,
429
00:15:39,580 –> 00:15:43,700
wait, what did we get in that four years besides massive
430
00:15:43,700 –> 00:15:47,180
inflation and just general discontent and horrible
431
00:15:48,860 –> 00:15:51,180
This is the key to everything that nobody wants to
432
00:15:51,180 –> 00:15:51,860
talk about anymore.
433
00:15:51,860 –> 00:15:53,380
And I understand why people don’t want to talk about
434
00:15:53,380 –> 00:15:53,700
it anymore,
435
00:15:53,700 –> 00:15:54,860
because it was awful and traumatic.
436
00:15:55,260 –> 00:15:58,540
But the COVID policies of the past administration and
437
00:15:58,540 –> 00:15:59,500
the Democratic Party,
438
00:15:59,900 –> 00:16:01,660
that is going to consign them
439
00:16:02,380 –> 00:16:05,380
to the trash heap of history for at least a decade.
440
00:16:05,660 –> 00:16:06,220
I mean, they have,
441
00:16:06,460 –> 00:16:07,300
I mean, try to think,
442
00:16:07,300 –> 00:16:07,820
Charlie, right now,
443
00:16:08,060 –> 00:16:11,020
who in the Democratic Party is offering any fresh
444
00:16:11,100 –> 00:16:12,460
ideas at all?
445
00:16:12,700 –> 00:16:14,540
I mean, the fact that the Republican Party became the
446
00:16:14,540 –> 00:16:16,620
party of the working class was something they should
447
00:16:16,620 –> 00:16:17,540
have done a long time ago,
448
00:16:17,620 –> 00:16:19,260
but they were inching towards it.
449
00:16:19,260 –> 00:16:21,020
It was sort of the Pat Buchanan types in the early
450
00:16:21,020 –> 00:16:23,220
90s that were a little populist,
451
00:16:23,220 –> 00:16:24,060
like, look,
452
00:16:24,220 –> 00:16:26,900
globalization is just a fact of life,
453
00:16:26,940 –> 00:16:29,660
but it’s going to have losers and you have to address
454
00:16:30,340 –> 00:16:32,060
And those people are your natural
455
00:16:32,180 –> 00:16:34,620
constituency in what are you doing?
456
00:16:34,620 –> 00:16:35,260
And, you know,
457
00:16:35,340 –> 00:16:37,500
I’m not the biggest Donald Trump fan,
458
00:16:37,980 –> 00:16:40,980
but I think that he is a master politician when it
459
00:16:40,980 –> 00:16:43,020
comes to that particular issue.
460
00:16:43,340 –> 00:16:44,060
You know, I’ve been,
461
00:16:44,060 –> 00:16:45,420
I was in your city.
462
00:16:45,420 –> 00:16:48,100
I was in Detroit for a Trump rally when he did the
463
00:16:48,940 –> 00:16:49,780
union rally.
464
00:16:49,780 –> 00:16:50,940
That wasn’t much of A union rally,
465
00:16:50,940 –> 00:16:51,420
to be honest,
466
00:16:51,820 –> 00:16:52,620
in Detroit.
467
00:16:52,620 –> 00:16:54,460
And it’s like just talking to people there.
468
00:16:54,780 –> 00:16:58,220
It’s like they have no relationship
469
00:16:58,740 –> 00:16:59,740
to the Democratic Party.
470
00:16:59,740 –> 00:17:01,580
It’s not like the FDR party,
471
00:17:02,060 –> 00:17:02,300
you know,
472
00:17:02,300 –> 00:17:04,140
the working man’s party,
473
00:17:04,140 –> 00:17:05,020
the forgotten man,
474
00:17:05,540 –> 00:17:08,260
as the Democrats and FDR said in the 1930s,
475
00:17:08,540 –> 00:17:09,780
just doesn’t exist anymore.
476
00:17:09,860 –> 00:17:11,100
And so you see these people,
477
00:17:11,100 –> 00:17:11,420
it’s like,
478
00:17:12,140 –> 00:17:12,460
you know,
479
00:17:13,180 –> 00:17:14,700
no disrespect to Anthony Weiner,
480
00:17:14,700 –> 00:17:15,580
but you know,
481
00:17:16,220 –> 00:17:17,820
these people are addicted to politics.
482
00:17:18,380 –> 00:17:20,580
You get caught and then you come back and then you’re
483
00:17:20,580 –> 00:17:21,340
doing the exact same thing.
484
00:17:21,340 –> 00:17:21,860
You get caught again,
485
00:17:21,860 –> 00:17:23,580
you go to jail for 18 months,
486
00:17:23,940 –> 00:17:24,620
for Christ’s sake.
487
00:17:24,620 –> 00:17:25,300
And then you come back,
488
00:17:25,300 –> 00:17:25,580
it’s like,
489
00:17:25,900 –> 00:17:27,820
no, no, this addiction
490
00:17:28,340 –> 00:17:29,380
to wanting to be,
491
00:17:29,380 –> 00:17:31,460
I mean, there’s always something off about somebody
492
00:17:31,460 –> 00:17:33,580
who wants to be in Congress.
493
00:17:33,580 –> 00:17:35,340
It’s a very low-paying job.
494
00:17:35,740 –> 00:17:38,060
It’s about power and narcissism,
495
00:17:38,060 –> 00:17:38,660
to be honest.
496
00:17:38,660 –> 00:17:39,660
I mean, again,
497
00:17:39,820 –> 00:17:40,780
just respect the Wiener,
498
00:17:41,020 –> 00:17:41,700
it’s everybody.
499
00:17:41,700 –> 00:17:42,660
It’s everybody who does that.
500
00:17:42,660 –> 00:17:43,980
Imagine the type of person who says,
501
00:17:44,060 –> 00:17:45,260
I want to be president.
502
00:17:45,500 –> 00:17:46,700
It’s Donald Trump in a way,
503
00:17:46,740 –> 00:17:48,220
and you get that with Donald Trump.
504
00:17:48,580 –> 00:17:49,900
I mean, he’s a proud narcissist,
505
00:17:50,100 –> 00:17:50,980
but, you know,
506
00:17:50,980 –> 00:17:52,300
these people will pretend that they’re,
507
00:17:52,700 –> 00:17:52,900
you know,
508
00:17:53,020 –> 00:17:55,700
out there for the working man or about 99%
509
00:17:55,700 –> 00:17:56,820
of the time full of shit.
510
00:17:58,340 –> 00:17:59,020
First of all,
511
00:17:59,340 –> 00:18:02,700
to finish up with the Democrats searching for something
512
00:18:02,700 –> 00:18:03,540
to talk to us about.
513
00:18:05,260 –> 00:18:06,140
I’m all for Doge.
514
00:18:06,540 –> 00:18:09,180
Okay, you’re talking to a former Democrat here,
515
00:18:09,180 –> 00:18:09,420
you know,
516
00:18:09,420 –> 00:18:13,860
like I never moved and the left went so far left,
517
00:18:13,860 –> 00:18:15,100
I see him coming from the right.
518
00:18:15,340 –> 00:18:17,100
You know, I’m for Doge,
519
00:18:17,140 –> 00:18:19,180
I’m for reciprocal tariffs.
520
00:18:19,180 –> 00:18:20,660
I understand economics.
521
00:18:21,020 –> 00:18:23,100
I’m not looking for just abusive tariffs,
522
00:18:23,100 –> 00:18:26,620
but let’s get some of our companies back.
523
00:18:27,500 –> 00:18:31,980
When you’re sending Apple to China or GM to Mexico
524
00:18:31,980 –> 00:18:33,020
or Canada,
525
00:18:33,180 –> 00:18:35,500
those are actually American jobs.
526
00:18:35,500 –> 00:18:36,620
Those were our jobs.
527
00:18:36,860 –> 00:18:39,420
And I just don’t think the structure is correct and
528
00:18:39,420 –> 00:18:40,540
something needs to be done about it.
529
00:18:40,700 –> 00:18:42,380
But then I look at the Republicans.
530
00:18:43,340 –> 00:18:44,380
Party of the working man.
531
00:18:46,060 –> 00:18:48,940
Is the leadership the party of the working man?
532
00:18:49,460 –> 00:18:51,580
Is Ted Cruz a working guy?
533
00:18:51,980 –> 00:18:52,820
His wife is a
534
00:18:53,940 –> 00:18:55,820
managing partner at Goldman Sachs.
535
00:18:55,980 –> 00:18:58,620
If you look at the cool kids in the media surrounding
536
00:18:58,620 –> 00:18:59,260
them, just,
537
00:18:59,500 –> 00:18:59,740
you know,
538
00:18:59,740 –> 00:19:05,900
like Tucker Carlson or Elon Musk or Jesse Watters
539
00:19:05,900 –> 00:19:06,780
or Kid Rock,
540
00:19:06,940 –> 00:19:08,060
all these guys grew up rich.
541
00:19:08,380 –> 00:19:12,460
So I don’t know what exactly they have in common with
542
00:19:12,460 –> 00:19:13,180
me or, you know,
543
00:19:13,180 –> 00:19:15,660
what this new party is supposed to be all about.
544
00:19:15,660 –> 00:19:16,300
I don’t think,
545
00:19:16,500 –> 00:19:17,660
I don’t think it holds together.
546
00:19:18,060 –> 00:19:18,780
No, Tucker.
547
00:19:18,780 –> 00:19:19,820
Because of the leadership.
548
00:19:20,300 –> 00:19:21,260
Tucker’s an interesting one.
549
00:19:21,260 –> 00:19:22,500
I mean, I’ve known him.
550
00:19:22,860 –> 00:19:23,500
I’ve known him a lot.
551
00:19:23,500 –> 00:19:24,620
I knew him when he drank.
552
00:19:25,180 –> 00:19:25,900
Yeah, well,
553
00:19:25,900 –> 00:19:27,020
that’s actually before me.
554
00:19:27,020 –> 00:19:28,340
Yeah, I didn’t know him when he drank.
555
00:19:28,540 –> 00:19:29,620
But it’s funny.
556
00:19:29,620 –> 00:19:31,180
I mean, his,
557
00:19:31,500 –> 00:19:33,180
they’re cutting Voice of America,
558
00:19:33,580 –> 00:19:34,300
But remember,
559
00:19:34,300 –> 00:19:36,020
Tucker’s father ran Voice of America.
560
00:19:36,020 –> 00:19:38,460
His mother was the heir to the Swanson
561
00:19:38,980 –> 00:19:40,700
frozen dinner fortune.
562
00:19:40,700 –> 00:19:41,260
I mean, this is,
563
00:19:41,260 –> 00:19:44,100
these are not people who are particularly working
564
00:19:44,340 –> 00:19:45,180
And that’s fine,
565
00:19:45,500 –> 00:19:46,060
provided,
566
00:19:46,140 –> 00:19:46,460
you know,
567
00:19:46,540 –> 00:19:47,500
I mean, that’s,
568
00:19:47,500 –> 00:19:50,460
there’s a book about FDR and the name of the book,
569
00:19:50,460 –> 00:19:51,220
I think it’s H.W.
570
00:19:51,220 –> 00:19:53,180
Brand’s book called A Traitor to His Class.
571
00:19:53,580 –> 00:19:55,020
You can be a traitor to your class and say,
572
00:19:55,020 –> 00:19:55,740
look, I want to,
573
00:19:55,820 –> 00:19:57,300
I want to be there for the,
574
00:19:57,500 –> 00:19:59,820
for the working people who are getting screwed.
575
00:20:00,060 –> 00:20:00,780
That’s fine.
576
00:20:00,860 –> 00:20:02,540
I think that a lot of these people,
577
00:20:02,540 –> 00:20:03,700
not Tucker in particular,
578
00:20:03,700 –> 00:20:04,620
but a lot of them,
579
00:20:05,020 –> 00:20:05,340
you know,
580
00:20:05,420 –> 00:20:06,900
you don’t need a weatherman to know which way the
581
00:20:06,900 –> 00:20:07,580
wind blows.
582
00:20:08,460 –> 00:20:10,780
fucking Marco Rubio is now MAGA.
583
00:20:11,020 –> 00:20:12,860
If Donald Trump hadn’t won,
584
00:20:12,860 –> 00:20:14,380
Marco Rubio wouldn’t be MAGA.
585
00:20:14,380 –> 00:20:16,380
These people have no core principles at all.
586
00:20:16,620 –> 00:20:19,500
If it means that you talk about the working class to
587
00:20:19,500 –> 00:20:20,220
get votes,
588
00:20:20,700 –> 00:20:21,980
then let’s do it.
589
00:20:21,980 –> 00:20:23,260
And that and you see that.
590
00:20:23,300 –> 00:20:25,740
I mean, people have shifted their politics,
591
00:20:25,740 –> 00:20:27,020
particularly in the Republican Party.
592
00:20:27,020 –> 00:20:30,300
So when you see somebody that is pretty principled
593
00:20:31,060 –> 00:20:32,220
And there’s a couple of them,
594
00:20:32,540 –> 00:20:32,940
you know,
595
00:20:33,020 –> 00:20:34,660
that I can think of.
596
00:20:34,660 –> 00:20:36,780
I mean, not a ton that you say,
597
00:20:36,780 –> 00:20:37,380
oh, that’s great.
598
00:20:37,500 –> 00:20:40,620
But these guys are shifting constantly towards the
599
00:20:40,620 –> 00:20:44,140
kind of Trump position and the MAGA position on kind
600
00:20:44,140 –> 00:20:44,860
of class,
601
00:20:45,060 –> 00:20:45,740
which, you know,
602
00:20:45,820 –> 00:20:48,820
I think is refreshing because race was the thing that
603
00:20:48,820 –> 00:20:49,980
the Democrats were obsessed with.
604
00:20:49,980 –> 00:20:52,060
Class is the thing that people should be obsessed with,
605
00:20:52,220 –> 00:20:53,660
because that transcends race.
606
00:20:53,660 –> 00:20:55,860
I mean, I’ve worked at so many organizations and Charlie,
607
00:20:55,860 –> 00:20:56,700
I’m sure you have too,
608
00:20:57,020 –> 00:20:58,780
that as a rainbow,
609
00:20:59,020 –> 00:20:59,740
black people,
610
00:20:59,740 –> 00:21:00,420
white people,
611
00:21:00,420 –> 00:21:00,980
Hispanic people,
612
00:21:01,100 –> 00:21:02,780
people and they all fucking went to Yale.
613
00:21:03,180 –> 00:21:03,980
That is not,
614
00:21:03,980 –> 00:21:05,340
that is not diversity.
615
00:21:05,580 –> 00:21:08,540
That is rich people with slightly different hues of
616
00:21:08,540 –> 00:21:09,260
skin color.
617
00:21:09,620 –> 00:21:12,780
And that’s what we got for so long with Democrats.
618
00:21:12,820 –> 00:21:13,340
And, you know,
619
00:21:13,340 –> 00:21:14,060
the shift,
620
00:21:14,060 –> 00:21:14,940
as you point out,
621
00:21:15,460 –> 00:21:16,140
from the left.
622
00:21:16,380 –> 00:21:17,020
It is very,
623
00:21:17,020 –> 00:21:20,060
very smart for Republicans to point out things that
624
00:21:20,140 –> 00:21:23,020
aren’t issues that many people actually confront,
625
00:21:23,260 –> 00:21:25,340
like trans people in sports.
626
00:21:25,580 –> 00:21:26,940
It’s an 80-20 issue.
627
00:21:27,140 –> 00:21:29,980
That’s the dream of political people to get an 80-20
628
00:21:30,940 –> 00:21:32,620
80% are on the side of Republicans.
629
00:21:32,620 –> 00:21:33,740
So you see Gavin Newsom,
630
00:21:34,260 –> 00:21:35,020
shifting on this.
631
00:21:35,180 –> 00:21:35,580
He’s like,
632
00:21:35,580 –> 00:21:38,180
yeah, I know we shouldn’t have trans people biological.
633
00:21:38,380 –> 00:21:39,580
They shouldn’t be playing in their own.
634
00:21:39,980 –> 00:21:44,060
This is because a culture war issue is unnecessary
635
00:21:44,380 –> 00:21:46,140
for the good of the American people,
636
00:21:46,140 –> 00:21:47,100
the average voter,
637
00:21:47,340 –> 00:21:50,620
but it does signal that we’re no longer playing those
638
00:21:50,620 –> 00:21:53,780
bullshit games the Democrats have played in the kind
639
00:21:53,780 –> 00:21:54,460
of, you know,
640
00:21:54,460 –> 00:21:56,780
if you want to call it wokeness or identity politics,
641
00:21:57,100 –> 00:21:58,780
that stuff just failed.
642
00:21:59,100 –> 00:22:02,540
And it took the election of Donald Trump in so many,
643
00:22:02,700 –> 00:22:04,100
I mean, the fact that Hispanics
644
00:22:04,260 –> 00:22:05,700
moved so far.
645
00:22:05,700 –> 00:22:07,820
And I did a piece for advice about this and everyone
646
00:22:07,820 –> 00:22:09,180
was kind of rolling their eyes about it.
647
00:22:09,500 –> 00:22:12,820
And I went down to Starr County in Texas on the border
648
00:22:12,820 –> 00:22:13,660
in the Rio Grande Valley,
649
00:22:13,900 –> 00:22:16,140
the most Hispanic county in America.
650
00:22:16,660 –> 00:22:17,460
It’s like literally 99%
651
00:22:17,460 –> 00:22:18,540
Hispanic.
652
00:22:19,100 –> 00:22:22,540
There’s like 3 white guys that got lost and,
653
00:22:22,540 –> 00:22:22,780
you know,
654
00:22:22,780 –> 00:22:23,980
happened to end up there.
655
00:22:24,380 –> 00:22:27,820
And it was the most MAGA place I’ve ever been because
656
00:22:27,820 –> 00:22:28,380
they looked at me like,
657
00:22:28,380 –> 00:22:30,500
why do you think I want immigrants traipsing through
658
00:22:30,500 –> 00:22:32,140
my backyard who just crossed the border,
659
00:22:32,340 –> 00:22:33,420
which is a mile away?
660
00:22:33,660 –> 00:22:34,620
Because I’m Hispanic.
661
00:22:34,620 –> 00:22:35,340
I don’t want that.
662
00:22:35,340 –> 00:22:36,780
Like, you think I’m okay with that?
663
00:22:36,780 –> 00:22:38,620
No, I’m not okay with that.
664
00:22:38,620 –> 00:22:39,740
And it went from
665
00:22:40,380 –> 00:22:41,100
The county,
666
00:22:41,740 –> 00:22:45,180
Hillary Clinton won it by like a 40 point margin.
667
00:22:45,420 –> 00:22:47,180
Biden won it by like a two point margin.
668
00:22:47,420 –> 00:22:49,860
And Trump now I think won it by 10 or 20 point.
669
00:22:49,860 –> 00:22:51,420
It’s some enormous shift.
670
00:22:51,820 –> 00:22:52,780
What does that tell you?
671
00:22:53,020 –> 00:22:54,460
It means that to me,
672
00:22:54,700 –> 00:22:57,100
that if you’re looking at the American voter,
673
00:22:57,100 –> 00:22:58,700
particularly working class American voters,
674
00:22:58,860 –> 00:23:01,180
through the prism of race and through the prism of
675
00:23:01,180 –> 00:23:03,860
your own university identity politics,
676
00:23:03,860 –> 00:23:07,020
the fact that you’re like in the Latinx studies departments,
677
00:23:07,020 –> 00:23:08,620
these people don’t give a fuck about that.
678
00:23:08,780 –> 00:23:10,100
They’ve never said the word Latinx.
679
00:23:10,620 –> 00:23:12,060
They don’t care about any of this shit.
680
00:23:12,060 –> 00:23:13,820
And Republicans figured that out.
681
00:23:14,100 –> 00:23:15,820
And Democrats have to figure it out themselves.
682
00:23:15,820 –> 00:23:19,020
Let me help my Democratic friends here with the trans
683
00:23:19,420 –> 00:23:21,100
You want to dig yourself out of this.
684
00:23:23,420 –> 00:23:27,780
Elizabeth Warren says it’s a violence against transgender
685
00:23:27,780 –> 00:23:29,820
people is a white supremacy issue.
686
00:23:30,860 –> 00:23:33,100
If you look at it and you do any studying and you hit
687
00:23:33,100 –> 00:23:33,980
the streets,
688
00:23:34,700 –> 00:23:37,740
you’ll know that the majority of violence perpetrated
689
00:23:37,740 –> 00:23:39,100
against trans people
690
00:23:40,180 –> 00:23:40,940
are black people.
691
00:23:41,660 –> 00:23:46,380
And it’s usually on the streets and it’s in places
692
00:23:46,380 –> 00:23:47,980
where it’s the sex trade.
693
00:23:48,220 –> 00:23:50,020
It’s Sixth and Woodward right here,
694
00:23:51,020 –> 00:23:52,300
I did a story of,
695
00:23:52,700 –> 00:23:53,860
it’s a very particular place.
696
00:23:53,860 –> 00:23:54,620
I did a story,
697
00:23:54,700 –> 00:23:55,260
went out,
698
00:23:55,340 –> 00:23:56,380
talked to the ladies,
699
00:23:56,460 –> 00:23:57,420
had a drink with them,
700
00:23:57,820 –> 00:23:58,180
et cetera,
701
00:23:58,180 –> 00:23:58,540
et cetera.
702
00:23:58,940 –> 00:23:59,580
Next week,
703
00:24:00,140 –> 00:24:01,260
bullet in somebody’s head.
704
00:24:02,700 –> 00:24:05,740
The problem is that little enclave within Detroit is
705
00:24:05,740 –> 00:24:08,060
called Highland Park.
706
00:24:08,780 –> 00:24:09,820
They don’t have enough cops.
707
00:24:10,140 –> 00:24:12,580
In fact, they had to ship the murder case off to the
708
00:24:12,580 –> 00:24:14,180
state police because they don’t have any homicide
709
00:24:14,180 –> 00:24:14,780
detectives.
710
00:24:14,940 –> 00:24:16,300
So if you want to come back,
711
00:24:17,100 –> 00:24:18,300
and I’m just,
712
00:24:18,340 –> 00:24:19,100
I’m for everybody,
713
00:24:19,100 –> 00:24:20,140
try to love everybody.
714
00:24:21,260 –> 00:24:23,340
The issue with violence against trans people,
715
00:24:23,340 –> 00:24:25,660
we need some more cops to protect them.
716
00:24:25,820 –> 00:24:26,860
We need patrolmen.
717
00:24:26,860 –> 00:24:28,140
We need a homicide detective.
718
00:24:28,220 –> 00:24:29,340
That’s what we need.
719
00:24:29,500 –> 00:24:32,700
We don’t need dudes in locker rooms.
720
00:24:32,700 –> 00:24:36,300
In fact, any terrific female athlete
721
00:24:37,700 –> 00:24:39,180
tries to compete against men.
722
00:24:39,180 –> 00:24:40,860
You know, you’ve had a few that,
723
00:24:40,860 –> 00:24:43,660
like, I want to go pro and I want to be drafted by
724
00:24:44,660 –> 00:24:46,540
No one’s broken through yet,
725
00:24:46,620 –> 00:24:47,820
but that’s where you’re trying to go.
726
00:24:47,980 –> 00:24:50,300
So if you’re a trans woman,
727
00:24:50,460 –> 00:24:51,580
why wouldn’t you compete with men?
728
00:24:52,140 –> 00:24:53,180
I don’t understand that.
729
00:24:54,300 –> 00:24:55,460
I don’t understand it at all.
730
00:24:56,300 –> 00:24:56,860
Yeah, I mean,
731
00:24:57,340 –> 00:24:58,700
I’m not going to die on that hill.
732
00:24:59,780 –> 00:25:01,220
And people here are dying in the streets.
733
00:25:01,220 –> 00:25:02,220
That’s what we got to deal with.
734
00:25:03,180 –> 00:25:04,060
Well, I’ll tell you what,
735
00:25:04,300 –> 00:25:05,020
the one thing that…
736
00:25:05,740 –> 00:25:08,340
Weiner clearly understands as somebody running for
737
00:25:08,340 –> 00:25:11,260
city council is that we need more cops in New York
738
00:25:11,900 –> 00:25:13,420
I mean, I ride the subway every day.
739
00:25:13,580 –> 00:25:15,100
It’s a it’s an insane asylum.
740
00:25:15,660 –> 00:25:16,300
I mean, these people,
741
00:25:16,300 –> 00:25:18,860
I mean, this is the result of deinstitutionalization.
742
00:25:19,220 –> 00:25:20,300
And there are people,
743
00:25:20,300 –> 00:25:23,260
I mean, the Daniel Penny thing was the least surprising
744
00:25:23,260 –> 00:25:26,740
thing to any person who rides a subway in New York.
745
00:25:26,740 –> 00:25:27,940
And if people don’t remember that story,
746
00:25:27,940 –> 00:25:29,740
it was a guy who was in
747
00:25:30,380 –> 00:25:31,860
the guy Jordan Neely was his name,
748
00:25:31,860 –> 00:25:32,620
was in the car,
749
00:25:33,100 –> 00:25:33,820
who was very,
750
00:25:33,900 –> 00:25:37,100
very sweetly described by all the newspapers as a
751
00:25:37,100 –> 00:25:38,620
Michael Jackson impersonator.
752
00:25:38,620 –> 00:25:38,860
It’s like,
753
00:25:38,860 –> 00:25:39,380
well, in fact,
754
00:25:39,380 –> 00:25:41,100
he was a mentally ill,
755
00:25:41,100 –> 00:25:44,300
violent homeless person and threatened to kill everyone
756
00:25:44,300 –> 00:25:44,620
in the car.
757
00:25:44,620 –> 00:25:45,180
Daniel Penny,
758
00:25:45,180 –> 00:25:45,900
former Marine,
759
00:25:45,900 –> 00:25:47,260
lives in Long Island where I am now.
760
00:25:47,580 –> 00:25:50,220
And he choked the guy out and the guy died.
761
00:25:50,740 –> 00:25:52,140
And I think the guy had drugs in the system,
762
00:25:52,140 –> 00:25:52,620
the rest of it.
763
00:25:52,940 –> 00:25:56,140
But that is the day-to-day experience of people that
764
00:25:56,140 –> 00:25:57,740
isn’t kind of in
765
00:25:58,340 –> 00:25:58,980
Statistics.
766
00:25:58,980 –> 00:26:00,620
So I have people all,
767
00:26:00,620 –> 00:26:00,860
you know,
768
00:26:00,860 –> 00:26:03,380
that write into the podcast and they say,
769
00:26:03,380 –> 00:26:03,820
well, you know,
770
00:26:03,900 –> 00:26:04,540
that’s not true.
771
00:26:04,540 –> 00:26:05,500
The subway is safer.
772
00:26:05,500 –> 00:26:05,740
It’s like,
773
00:26:05,740 –> 00:26:09,660
dude, the feeling of menace in the city,
774
00:26:09,980 –> 00:26:10,700
in New York City,
775
00:26:10,780 –> 00:26:12,620
on the subway is not a statistic.
776
00:26:12,620 –> 00:26:13,180
You can’t,
777
00:26:13,420 –> 00:26:15,380
you don’t call the cops when you feel uncomfortable
778
00:26:15,380 –> 00:26:15,740
on the subway,
779
00:26:15,740 –> 00:26:17,660
when someone’s screaming at the top of the lungs and
780
00:26:17,660 –> 00:26:18,060
they get off.
781
00:26:18,060 –> 00:26:19,980
That’s never reflected in statistics.
782
00:26:20,300 –> 00:26:23,660
That kind of feeling in the response that people want
783
00:26:23,660 –> 00:26:24,540
is they want more cops.
784
00:26:25,220 –> 00:26:26,420
We’ve always wanted more cops.
785
00:26:26,740 –> 00:26:29,740
And the big bullshit thing that has been propagated
786
00:26:29,740 –> 00:26:33,260
by people who have obvious political agendas is,
787
00:26:33,460 –> 00:26:34,540
I’ll give you one example,
788
00:26:34,780 –> 00:26:38,500
the crack and powder cocaine disparity in sentencing.
789
00:26:39,020 –> 00:26:39,660
That was bad.
790
00:26:39,660 –> 00:26:40,460
We shouldn’t have done that.
791
00:26:40,460 –> 00:26:40,980
That was terrible.
792
00:26:41,580 –> 00:26:42,300
But you know what?
793
00:26:42,380 –> 00:26:44,620
That was actually pushed by Charlie Rangel and the
794
00:26:44,620 –> 00:26:47,420
Congressional Black Caucus because they went out and
795
00:26:47,420 –> 00:26:47,660
say, look,
796
00:26:47,660 –> 00:26:49,900
the problem is during the Reagan administration,
797
00:26:50,460 –> 00:26:52,220
this is an epidemic.
798
00:26:52,580 –> 00:26:54,860
that is ravaging the black community.
799
00:26:55,220 –> 00:26:56,300
And you guys don’t care.
800
00:26:56,780 –> 00:26:57,740
Do something about it.
801
00:26:57,980 –> 00:26:59,340
Make the penalties harsher.
802
00:26:59,340 –> 00:26:59,980
Look this up.
803
00:26:59,980 –> 00:27:01,220
It is absolutely true.
804
00:27:01,220 –> 00:27:03,500
And there’s a good book about this called The Black
805
00:27:03,500 –> 00:27:06,620
Silent Majority that points out in the 70s and 80s
806
00:27:06,620 –> 00:27:09,500
when crime was rampant in places like Detroit,
807
00:27:09,500 –> 00:27:10,940
in places like New York City,
808
00:27:10,940 –> 00:27:11,260
in places
809
00:27:11,433 –> 00:27:12,033
like Cleveland,
810
00:27:12,353 –> 00:27:14,193
and it was especially hitting black neighborhoods.
811
00:27:14,433 –> 00:27:17,313
There were local black politicians and community leaders
812
00:27:17,313 –> 00:27:17,633
that said,
813
00:27:17,633 –> 00:27:18,673
give us more cops.
814
00:27:18,993 –> 00:27:22,273
We want to be surveilled and we want cops in the street
815
00:27:22,273 –> 00:27:24,673
more than we have them now because we have crack and
816
00:27:24,673 –> 00:27:25,713
we have gang problems.
817
00:27:26,153 –> 00:27:27,553
And that kind of stuff is like,
818
00:27:27,633 –> 00:27:29,873
you think that who calls the police?
819
00:27:30,513 –> 00:27:32,873
And the New York police don’t do like proactive policing
820
00:27:33,113 –> 00:27:33,793
They respond to calls.
821
00:27:33,953 –> 00:27:34,793
Who calls police?
822
00:27:34,793 –> 00:27:35,473
What neighborhoods?
823
00:27:35,473 –> 00:27:36,513
Why are the cops in those neighborhoods?
824
00:27:36,593 –> 00:27:38,593
Because the people in those neighborhoods call them.
825
00:27:39,073 –> 00:27:39,953
Because, you know,
826
00:27:40,033 –> 00:27:41,553
don’t be condescending people.
827
00:27:41,793 –> 00:27:42,593
The average,
828
00:27:42,593 –> 00:27:44,113
like middle-aged,
829
00:27:44,113 –> 00:27:46,433
elderly, even young black person in the neighborhood,
830
00:27:46,433 –> 00:27:49,233
they want cops there when there’s people fucking around.
831
00:27:49,593 –> 00:27:51,793
And that is something that Democrats didn’t understand.
832
00:27:51,793 –> 00:27:53,473
And I think the biggest own goal,
833
00:27:53,873 –> 00:27:56,513
after a series of so many fucking own goals,
834
00:27:56,913 –> 00:27:58,953
was after George Floyd in the
835
00:28:00,353 –> 00:28:01,393
Defund the police stuff.
836
00:28:01,473 –> 00:28:02,593
Fewer police officers.
837
00:28:03,313 –> 00:28:03,953
We’re talking,
838
00:28:04,353 –> 00:28:04,913
we’re talking,
839
00:28:06,113 –> 00:28:07,793
we’re talking with Michael Moynihan.
840
00:28:07,793 –> 00:28:09,153
He has a new program,
841
00:28:09,153 –> 00:28:10,393
the Moynihan Report.
842
00:28:10,393 –> 00:28:11,353
Where do they find that,
843
00:28:12,793 –> 00:28:13,873
on two-way,
844
00:28:13,913 –> 00:28:16,793
and it’s the number two and way on YouTube.
845
00:28:16,793 –> 00:28:17,513
It’s on the two-way channel.
846
00:28:17,513 –> 00:28:18,873
And just Google the Moynihan report,
847
00:28:18,873 –> 00:28:19,393
it’ll come up too.
848
00:28:19,633 –> 00:28:20,193
It’ll also,
849
00:28:20,273 –> 00:28:22,873
the 1965 Moynihan report by Daniel Patrick Moynihan
850
00:28:22,873 –> 00:28:23,953
will also come up,
851
00:28:23,953 –> 00:28:25,193
but not that one.
852
00:28:25,193 –> 00:28:25,713
What a nerd.
853
00:28:25,873 –> 00:28:27,073
Mark, you had a question.
854
00:28:27,153 –> 00:28:29,633
Well, I just wanted to follow up on the whole idea,
855
00:28:29,633 –> 00:28:30,353
Michael, of,
856
00:28:30,353 –> 00:28:30,553
you know,
857
00:28:30,553 –> 00:28:31,313
more policing.
858
00:28:31,313 –> 00:28:33,073
And I still don’t understand,
859
00:28:33,073 –> 00:28:34,393
there was an incident last September,
860
00:28:34,393 –> 00:28:35,713
I think his name was Darren Mickles,
861
00:28:36,593 –> 00:28:37,833
in the response by that.
862
00:28:37,833 –> 00:28:39,233
Do you know the story of Darren?
863
00:28:40,393 –> 00:28:41,073
I might know it.
864
00:28:41,073 –> 00:28:42,193
I don’t remember the name offhand.
865
00:28:42,353 –> 00:28:46,113
He jumped the turnstile for the subway and then the
866
00:28:46,113 –> 00:28:48,593
police went after him and he ended up holding up a
867
00:28:48,593 –> 00:28:52,193
knife and they told him to drop it multiple times.
868
00:28:52,353 –> 00:28:54,473
And the police even admit that maybe these guys were
869
00:28:54,473 –> 00:28:55,153
a little aggressive,
870
00:28:55,153 –> 00:28:56,033
but he went at him.
871
00:28:56,033 –> 00:28:56,753
Nobody died,
872
00:28:56,993 –> 00:28:57,873
but he was shot at.
873
00:28:58,073 –> 00:29:00,713
And the response to it from the politicians in New
874
00:29:00,713 –> 00:29:01,713
York City have been
875
00:29:02,513 –> 00:29:05,113
They shot him over jumping in turnstile and they’re
876
00:29:05,113 –> 00:29:07,793
just yada yada yadaing the whole middle part out.
877
00:29:07,793 –> 00:29:09,233
And I wonder like why,
878
00:29:09,713 –> 00:29:12,233
why would a city representative,
879
00:29:12,233 –> 00:29:13,273
a Democrat do that?
880
00:29:13,273 –> 00:29:16,553
Why not say exactly what happened and admit that it’s
881
00:29:16,553 –> 00:29:17,313
not perfect?
882
00:29:18,833 –> 00:29:22,433
The New York City Council and most politicians and
883
00:29:22,433 –> 00:29:23,873
political leaders in New York have,
884
00:29:23,953 –> 00:29:25,073
as Charlie pointed out,
885
00:29:25,473 –> 00:29:29,153
shifted so far to the left that it’s unrecognizable
886
00:29:29,153 –> 00:29:30,113
to the average person.
887
00:29:30,113 –> 00:29:31,833
Because to live in New York City now,
888
00:29:31,833 –> 00:29:34,673
you have to be rich and university educated.
889
00:29:34,673 –> 00:29:38,233
And you can’t get an apartment in the roughest neighborhood
890
00:29:38,233 –> 00:29:40,753
for under $1,000,000 if you’re trying to buy something.
891
00:29:40,993 –> 00:29:44,913
So the kind of political leadership is preaching to
892
00:29:45,153 –> 00:29:46,673
a crowd of people that also
893
00:29:47,073 –> 00:29:51,233
you know, went to Skidmore College and Stanford and
894
00:29:51,233 –> 00:29:53,473
Bucknell and like these people that already spent
895
00:29:53,473 –> 00:29:55,113
100 grand to go to school.
896
00:29:55,113 –> 00:29:58,353
It’s a very particular type of political being.
897
00:29:58,353 –> 00:29:59,393
I mean, but that’s the thing.
898
00:29:59,393 –> 00:30:04,273
I mean, I was in Kenosha right when those riots happened.
899
00:30:04,913 –> 00:30:07,153
And this is a great,
900
00:30:07,153 –> 00:30:07,393
by the way,
901
00:30:07,393 –> 00:30:09,233
disconnect between Republicans and Democrats.
902
00:30:09,553 –> 00:30:10,513
Donald Trump came,
903
00:30:10,793 –> 00:30:12,353
and this is 2020,
904
00:30:13,233 –> 00:30:13,953
before the election,
905
00:30:13,953 –> 00:30:17,953
he came and he visited with these immigrants who had
906
00:30:17,953 –> 00:30:19,873
their businesses burned down in the rioting.
907
00:30:20,113 –> 00:30:24,593
Joe Biden came and visited with the family of the man,
908
00:30:24,673 –> 00:30:25,793
Jacob Blake,
909
00:30:25,833 –> 00:30:26,433
I think was his name,
910
00:30:26,433 –> 00:30:26,913
Jacob Blake,
911
00:30:26,913 –> 00:30:27,393
was that his name?
912
00:30:28,673 –> 00:30:28,993
I think so.
913
00:30:29,153 –> 00:30:31,313
That was shot by the police.
914
00:30:32,113 –> 00:30:34,793
What did we find out very quickly about Jacob Blake?
915
00:30:34,793 –> 00:30:35,953
And it was in the video that you see.
916
00:30:35,953 –> 00:30:36,633
He had a knife,
917
00:30:36,753 –> 00:30:38,593
he was holding a knife to the police.
918
00:30:38,873 –> 00:30:41,553
And he was also violating A restraining order for committing
919
00:30:41,553 –> 00:30:44,033
sexual assault against his either ex-wife or ex-girlfriend.
920
00:30:44,353 –> 00:30:45,553
Joe Biden went and visited him.
921
00:30:46,073 –> 00:30:46,553
And that was a,
922
00:30:46,553 –> 00:30:47,793
I mean, this is the thing,
923
00:30:47,793 –> 00:30:50,193
like that stuff to the exact same point that you were
924
00:30:50,193 –> 00:30:53,313
making, it was never mentioned that Jacob Blake,
925
00:30:53,633 –> 00:30:54,113
or it was,
926
00:30:54,113 –> 00:30:56,673
it took a while to be mentioned that the guy was armed.
927
00:30:57,233 –> 00:30:59,793
And that, because the narrative is what was important.
928
00:30:59,793 –> 00:31:00,833
The narrative was,
929
00:31:01,553 –> 00:31:05,073
the like the police are there to,
930
00:31:05,153 –> 00:31:05,473
you know,
931
00:31:05,473 –> 00:31:08,633
be an occupying force and oppress people in their
932
00:31:08,633 –> 00:31:09,393
own neighborhoods.
933
00:31:09,633 –> 00:31:13,233
And that was particularly the narrative after George
934
00:31:13,513 –> 00:31:14,273
And look, I mean,
935
00:31:14,593 –> 00:31:16,993
the so many cops do so many bad things.
936
00:31:17,033 –> 00:31:18,033
I’m not saying blanket.
937
00:31:18,353 –> 00:31:20,193
We have to defend the cops just because
938
00:31:20,753 –> 00:31:22,513
you know, my last name’s Mike and I have cops in the
939
00:31:22,513 –> 00:31:24,193
family or had cops in the family in the past.
940
00:31:24,593 –> 00:31:28,193
It’s just like it became this narrative that anything
941
00:31:28,513 –> 00:31:29,193
that the police did,
942
00:31:29,193 –> 00:31:33,073
and the shocking thing about that story is that the
943
00:31:33,073 –> 00:31:34,113
one that you just told,
944
00:31:34,433 –> 00:31:37,633
is that anyone confronted anyone hopping a turnstile.
945
00:31:37,913 –> 00:31:39,953
This is the opposite of broken windows policing when
946
00:31:39,953 –> 00:31:42,393
I moved to New York in the Giuliani era,
947
00:31:42,833 –> 00:31:44,913
is that I knew people that they would try to slip
948
00:31:44,913 –> 00:31:45,473
through the turnstile,
949
00:31:45,473 –> 00:31:46,113
go to jail,
950
00:31:46,153 –> 00:31:47,793
and spend the night in the tombs downtown.
951
00:31:48,193 –> 00:31:51,233
Now I never see anyone at my subway stop ever pay for
952
00:31:51,233 –> 00:31:51,593
the subway.
953
00:31:52,193 –> 00:31:54,273
It’s just a total breakdown in order in that way.
954
00:31:54,353 –> 00:31:55,193
No one pays.
955
00:31:55,473 –> 00:31:56,113
And no one,
956
00:31:56,433 –> 00:31:56,953
no one’s,
957
00:31:57,233 –> 00:31:57,473
you know,
958
00:31:57,473 –> 00:31:59,633
like the both side-isms of it,
959
00:31:59,633 –> 00:31:59,793
you know,
960
00:31:59,793 –> 00:32:02,193
let’s take it back to journalism.
961
00:32:03,313 –> 00:32:04,353
It’s either like,
962
00:32:04,513 –> 00:32:04,833
you know,
963
00:32:05,793 –> 00:32:06,513
policing.
964
00:32:07,713 –> 00:32:10,193
Crime’s out of control or cops are devils,
965
00:32:11,793 –> 00:32:13,553
As the media breaks down,
966
00:32:15,073 –> 00:32:16,033
the nuanced,
967
00:32:16,353 –> 00:32:17,633
tell me the story,
968
00:32:17,633 –> 00:32:20,273
tell me about police contracts and why we can’t get
969
00:32:20,273 –> 00:32:22,393
rid of the bad cops and how most of them aren’t bad.
970
00:32:22,993 –> 00:32:25,513
That’s gone and it’s defaulted,
971
00:32:25,953 –> 00:32:26,753
the old, you know,
972
00:32:26,753 –> 00:32:27,433
vice stuff.
973
00:32:27,793 –> 00:32:30,633
It’s now just defaulted to podcasts and everybody’s
974
00:32:30,633 –> 00:32:32,673
sniffing each other’s ass and we’re all talking about
975
00:32:32,673 –> 00:32:33,313
the same thing.
976
00:32:33,473 –> 00:32:34,513
And that’s not
977
00:32:35,433 –> 00:32:36,033
That’s not,
978
00:32:36,433 –> 00:32:37,073
I guess it is.
979
00:32:37,073 –> 00:32:37,913
It’s the media,
980
00:32:37,913 –> 00:32:39,233
but it’s not journalism,
981
00:32:39,553 –> 00:32:41,153
The tweeting is not journalism.
982
00:32:41,393 –> 00:32:43,553
Podcasting is not journalism.
983
00:32:44,033 –> 00:32:46,753
And what’s left of the mainstream,
984
00:32:46,833 –> 00:32:51,313
I think, is about ready to crumble and that we have
985
00:32:51,313 –> 00:32:52,913
to pick it up on these alternative forms,
986
00:32:52,913 –> 00:32:54,673
guys that were trained to do it.
987
00:32:54,673 –> 00:32:57,393
Because now you got RFK Jr.
988
00:32:57,873 –> 00:33:01,833
talking about he wants to ban pharmaceutical companies
989
00:33:01,833 –> 00:33:02,993
from advertising.
990
00:33:03,473 –> 00:33:05,153
Now, to put this in perspective,
991
00:33:06,913 –> 00:33:10,273
Big Pharma in the United States spends about $30 billion
992
00:33:11,313 –> 00:33:15,953
That is more than the gross domestic product of Bosnia,
993
00:33:16,713 –> 00:33:17,713
of Bosnia.
994
00:33:17,953 –> 00:33:22,193
So what happens is Big Pharma is buying off the media.
995
00:33:22,433 –> 00:33:23,193
Like you’re not going to,
996
00:33:23,193 –> 00:33:25,393
when I went to see Roger Ailes do my show,
997
00:33:25,393 –> 00:33:26,593
The Americans for Fox,
998
00:33:26,593 –> 00:33:28,273
he said to me on the way out,
999
00:33:28,273 –> 00:33:28,753
he goes, okay,
1000
00:33:28,753 –> 00:33:30,113
I’m going to let you do it,
1001
00:33:30,353 –> 00:33:32,513
but you’re not going to write about our advertisers.
1002
00:33:32,793 –> 00:33:33,993
or you’re not going to do pieces on him.
1003
00:33:33,993 –> 00:33:36,353
What he was saying is you’re not touching big pharma.
1004
00:33:36,833 –> 00:33:41,793
So if you take this revenue stream away,
1005
00:33:42,233 –> 00:33:46,993
what happens to Fox or CNN or MSNBC or local news
1006
00:33:46,993 –> 00:33:47,553
for that matter?
1007
00:33:49,553 –> 00:33:51,553
Yeah, no, it’s a good question because I mean,
1008
00:33:51,553 –> 00:33:52,913
the thing about journalism,
1009
00:33:52,913 –> 00:33:53,353
as you know,
1010
00:33:53,353 –> 00:33:53,993
as Charlie,
1011
00:33:53,993 –> 00:33:54,993
I mean, you know,
1012
00:33:54,993 –> 00:33:56,433
podcasts are a type of journalism,
1013
00:33:56,433 –> 00:33:57,473
but it’s not reporting.
1014
00:33:58,993 –> 00:34:02,433
you notice that everybody who’s pontificating on podcasts
1015
00:34:02,433 –> 00:34:03,433
about, you know,
1016
00:34:03,433 –> 00:34:05,513
the working class have never met a working class person.
1017
00:34:05,513 –> 00:34:06,233
I mean, they don’t,
1018
00:34:06,233 –> 00:34:09,153
I mean, the closest they get is maybe the person that
1019
00:34:09,153 –> 00:34:11,153
comes to clean their apartment or something.
1020
00:34:11,473 –> 00:34:12,793
But, but yeah,
1021
00:34:12,793 –> 00:34:15,433
I mean, I think the difference now is that it’s almost
1022
00:34:15,433 –> 00:34:19,033
impossible to make money in journalism in a traditional
1023
00:34:19,353 –> 00:34:20,433
I mean, as you know,
1024
00:34:20,433 –> 00:34:21,713
newspapers were the most
1025
00:34:22,313 –> 00:34:23,993
profitable things in America.
1026
00:34:23,993 –> 00:34:24,833
If you own a newspaper,
1027
00:34:24,833 –> 00:34:25,873
you were a very,
1028
00:34:25,873 –> 00:34:27,313
very rich and powerful person.
1029
00:34:27,633 –> 00:34:29,393
It’s the Charles Foster Kane,
1030
00:34:29,713 –> 00:34:29,913
you know,
1031
00:34:29,913 –> 00:34:30,673
owned a newspaper.
1032
00:34:30,673 –> 00:34:31,273
That’s the,
1033
00:34:31,593 –> 00:34:34,753
remember that this is what you would have as the example
1034
00:34:34,753 –> 00:34:35,873
of somebody that was really rich,
1035
00:34:35,873 –> 00:34:37,993
the McCormick family who owned the Chicago Tribune,
1036
00:34:37,993 –> 00:34:38,393
et cetera.
1037
00:34:38,673 –> 00:34:39,633
I mean, these are,
1038
00:34:39,793 –> 00:34:41,393
this is no longer the case.
1039
00:34:41,793 –> 00:34:42,393
So I mean,
1040
00:34:42,393 –> 00:34:45,233
the incentives are totally fucked up now in the sense
1041
00:34:45,233 –> 00:34:45,633
that like,
1042
00:34:45,633 –> 00:34:45,793
you know,
1043
00:34:45,793 –> 00:34:46,753
I always point out that,
1044
00:34:47,233 –> 00:34:47,473
you know,
1045
00:34:47,473 –> 00:34:48,033
when I started,
1046
00:34:48,033 –> 00:34:49,633
I worked with Daily Beast for a while and that was
1047
00:34:49,633 –> 00:34:50,513
the first time I noticed it.
1048
00:34:50,913 –> 00:34:51,393
was that, you know,
1049
00:34:51,393 –> 00:34:54,433
I work for Tina Brown and I love Tina and she’s brilliant
1050
00:34:54,433 –> 00:34:55,153
at magazines.
1051
00:34:55,393 –> 00:34:56,553
And you saw this shift.
1052
00:34:56,553 –> 00:34:58,353
I mean, they had just bought Newsweek.
1053
00:34:59,033 –> 00:35:01,393
It’s kind of last dying gasp of old magazine world.
1054
00:35:02,033 –> 00:35:03,633
And you still had people on the payroll who had like
1055
00:35:03,713 –> 00:35:04,753
magazine salaries,
1056
00:35:04,753 –> 00:35:06,913
like old magazine salaries that got paid a lot.
1057
00:35:07,953 –> 00:35:10,953
But you saw this thing where the internet was now the
1058
00:35:10,953 –> 00:35:11,873
most important thing.
1059
00:35:12,113 –> 00:35:13,553
And that news cycle never ended.
1060
00:35:13,873 –> 00:35:14,273
I mean, Charlie,
1061
00:35:14,273 –> 00:35:16,673
when you filed a story and you’re in Detroit,
1062
00:35:16,673 –> 00:35:19,233
you’d go to the bar afterwards and you’d sit there
1063
00:35:19,233 –> 00:35:20,513
drinking and you’d follow your,
1064
00:35:20,513 –> 00:35:22,073
you filed your shit and you’re coming,
1065
00:35:22,073 –> 00:35:22,553
this day was,
1066
00:35:22,953 –> 00:35:23,633
that stopped.
1067
00:35:23,873 –> 00:35:26,273
Like you’re waiting and you’re waiting for the paper
1068
00:35:26,273 –> 00:35:27,473
to hit the streets.
1069
00:35:27,793 –> 00:35:30,273
Yeah, like and that’s the story comes out and like
1070
00:35:30,273 –> 00:35:32,753
I mean even going back so far as like we had evening
1071
00:35:32,753 –> 00:35:35,433
editions and morning editions of papers and that just
1072
00:35:35,433 –> 00:35:37,633
disappeared and the problem was
1073
00:35:37,953 –> 00:35:39,233
The advertising disappeared,
1074
00:35:39,233 –> 00:35:40,513
which is all the money came from,
1075
00:35:40,633 –> 00:35:43,393
and that disappeared because of Craigslist and Facebook
1076
00:35:43,393 –> 00:35:43,913
and all this stuff.
1077
00:35:44,233 –> 00:35:46,033
And so you have ad revenue going down,
1078
00:35:46,033 –> 00:35:46,593
down, down,
1079
00:35:46,593 –> 00:35:48,513
and the demand for content going up,
1080
00:35:48,513 –> 00:35:51,793
up, up, because there’s the news cycle never ends.
1081
00:35:52,033 –> 00:35:54,273
You’re filing stories at 7 o’clock and they’re going
1082
00:35:54,273 –> 00:35:55,193
online at 730.
1083
00:35:55,193 –> 00:35:56,913
You’re filing stories at 10 o’clock and they’re going
1084
00:35:56,913 –> 00:35:57,593
on at 1030.
1085
00:35:57,873 –> 00:35:58,993
I mean, something is happening.
1086
00:35:58,993 –> 00:36:00,033
You’ve got to get people to do it.
1087
00:36:00,033 –> 00:36:00,913
Who do you get to do it?
1088
00:36:01,313 –> 00:36:02,673
You can’t pay them because you don’t have any money.
1089
00:36:03,073 –> 00:36:04,993
So you get these kids who are 20 years old,
1090
00:36:04,993 –> 00:36:05,953
23 years old,
1091
00:36:05,953 –> 00:36:06,753
just out of college.
1092
00:36:07,073 –> 00:36:08,433
They don’t know anything.
1093
00:36:08,593 –> 00:36:11,953
They make endless mistakes and they’re very ideological.
1094
00:36:12,353 –> 00:36:14,033
And that was the thing that I noticed with Vice.
1095
00:36:14,193 –> 00:36:14,513
It became,
1096
00:36:14,593 –> 00:36:18,273
everyone became super ideological and it became like
1097
00:36:18,473 –> 00:36:20,433
a college seminar on race,
1098
00:36:20,433 –> 00:36:21,313
class, gender.
1099
00:36:21,313 –> 00:36:22,273
Wait, what happened?
1100
00:36:22,273 –> 00:36:22,993
What happened to Vice?
1101
00:36:22,993 –> 00:36:24,553
Because let’s just back up here for a second.
1102
00:36:24,673 –> 00:36:26,153
It starts in Montreal.
1103
00:36:26,153 –> 00:36:26,673
It’s, you know,
1104
00:36:26,873 –> 00:36:28,273
a hipster guy thing.
1105
00:36:28,993 –> 00:36:29,553
It catches,
1106
00:36:29,713 –> 00:36:31,153
it figured out the internet first.
1107
00:36:31,953 –> 00:36:33,233
I figured out YouTube.
1108
00:36:33,273 –> 00:36:34,113
Video in particular,
1109
00:36:34,273 –> 00:36:35,273
Figured out video,
1110
00:36:35,273 –> 00:36:36,353
it’s doing hip shit,
1111
00:36:36,353 –> 00:36:36,833
Cannibal,
1112
00:36:36,833 –> 00:36:39,433
it’s, it nailed,
1113
00:36:39,433 –> 00:36:40,113
it was there for me.
1114
00:36:40,113 –> 00:36:42,673
I was a national columnist for about a year there.
1115
00:36:42,913 –> 00:36:43,473
You were that,
1116
00:36:43,473 –> 00:36:43,873
you were what,
1117
00:36:43,873 –> 00:36:45,513
the managing editor?
1118
00:36:45,513 –> 00:36:46,833
I was the managing of the magazine,
1119
00:36:46,833 –> 00:36:48,073
and then I was one of the hosts,
1120
00:36:48,673 –> 00:36:50,593
So, what happened?
1121
00:36:51,873 –> 00:36:53,033
Yeah, what happened?
1122
00:36:54,913 –> 00:36:55,793
That was the model.
1123
00:36:55,953 –> 00:36:58,713
Dude, when it was valued at 5 billion and you went
1124
00:36:58,713 –> 00:36:59,633
to, what was it,
1125
00:36:59,633 –> 00:37:00,393
Williamsburg,
1126
00:37:00,513 –> 00:37:01,553
you went out front there.
1127
00:37:01,873 –> 00:37:03,433
It was a fucking scene.
1128
00:37:03,433 –> 00:37:06,113
I mean, every filmmaker in the world,
1129
00:37:06,113 –> 00:37:06,713
every writer,
1130
00:37:06,713 –> 00:37:07,153
every book,
1131
00:37:07,153 –> 00:37:07,953
everybody,
1132
00:37:07,953 –> 00:37:08,273
you know,
1133
00:37:08,273 –> 00:37:12,753
I ever knew in New York that that was had some national
1134
00:37:12,753 –> 00:37:14,753
prominence was hanging out in front there.
1135
00:37:14,993 –> 00:37:15,553
You know what I mean?
1136
00:37:16,673 –> 00:37:16,953
Yeah, I mean,
1137
00:37:16,953 –> 00:37:18,673
Charlie, when we did the show in
1138
00:37:19,713 –> 00:37:20,433
in Detroit.
1139
00:37:20,633 –> 00:37:21,633
I mean, there’s two things about that.
1140
00:37:21,633 –> 00:37:22,513
It’s actually a good example.
1141
00:37:22,753 –> 00:37:23,393
Because what you’re saying,
1142
00:37:23,393 –> 00:37:24,473
every filmmaker’s hanging out there,
1143
00:37:24,473 –> 00:37:24,993
all the cool people.
1144
00:37:24,993 –> 00:37:26,153
That show was.
1145
00:37:26,153 –> 00:37:26,753
I didn’t say cool.
1146
00:37:27,313 –> 00:37:28,193
A lot of assholes,
1147
00:37:28,513 –> 00:37:30,033
Lot of self-important assholes.
1148
00:37:30,393 –> 00:37:31,313
That was the real.
1149
00:37:31,873 –> 00:37:32,433
No offense.
1150
00:37:34,913 –> 00:37:37,233
But that show was two things.
1151
00:37:37,313 –> 00:37:39,873
One was that Spike Jones was involved in it,
1152
00:37:40,793 –> 00:37:41,673
which is amazing.
1153
00:37:41,673 –> 00:37:43,233
And sitting in meetings with Spike Jones,
1154
00:37:43,233 –> 00:37:44,753
there’s incredible filmmakers,
1155
00:37:44,753 –> 00:37:45,793
smart, interesting,
1156
00:37:45,793 –> 00:37:46,153
funny guy.
1157
00:37:46,953 –> 00:37:47,873
And it was sponsored.
1158
00:37:48,313 –> 00:37:49,713
And that was how you did it,
1159
00:37:50,073 –> 00:37:51,353
That was sponsored content.
1160
00:37:51,353 –> 00:37:54,513
And I have to say that in it was that show was sponsored
1161
00:37:54,513 –> 00:37:55,433
by Bank of America,
1162
00:37:56,433 –> 00:37:58,553
And the thing about it was that I said,
1163
00:37:58,553 –> 00:37:59,273
this is the beginning,
1164
00:37:59,273 –> 00:37:59,953
and this is true.
1165
00:37:59,953 –> 00:38:01,313
I have all the emails to previous.
1166
00:38:01,633 –> 00:38:03,473
They never interfered because they knew it would look
1167
00:38:04,113 –> 00:38:05,313
They wanted to get with the kids,
1168
00:38:05,553 –> 00:38:05,873
They wanted,
1169
00:38:05,873 –> 00:38:09,073
but they didn’t want to ever seem like they were thumbing
1170
00:38:09,073 –> 00:38:09,553
the scale.
1171
00:38:09,553 –> 00:38:12,193
So it was actually kind of cool that we’re taking all
1172
00:38:12,193 –> 00:38:13,713
their money and just setting it on fire,
1173
00:38:14,753 –> 00:38:16,593
Spending tons of their fucking money.
1174
00:38:16,833 –> 00:38:18,073
And we just did whatever we wanted.
1175
00:38:18,433 –> 00:38:20,033
a bar on wheels in the new.
1176
00:38:20,033 –> 00:38:20,513
Yeah, I mean,
1177
00:38:20,513 –> 00:38:21,873
it’s essentially what it was.
1178
00:38:21,873 –> 00:38:23,393
And we just traveled around the country because we
1179
00:38:23,393 –> 00:38:24,193
wanted to spend their money.
1180
00:38:24,513 –> 00:38:25,313
But the thing is we had,
1181
00:38:25,313 –> 00:38:26,593
there was like 3 categories,
1182
00:38:26,593 –> 00:38:27,993
which is a straight editorial stuff.
1183
00:38:28,593 –> 00:38:30,153
There was sponsored content,
1184
00:38:30,153 –> 00:38:32,113
which somebody would just pay to be the sponsor,
1185
00:38:32,113 –> 00:38:33,153
like, you know,
1186
00:38:33,153 –> 00:38:35,793
Chesterfield cigarettes is sponsoring a TV show in
1187
00:38:35,793 –> 00:38:36,753
the 50s or 60s.
1188
00:38:36,833 –> 00:38:37,553
That’s my brand.
1189
00:38:37,553 –> 00:38:39,273
And then there was branded content,
1190
00:38:39,273 –> 00:38:39,793
which was,
1191
00:38:39,953 –> 00:38:40,273
you know,
1192
00:38:40,353 –> 00:38:41,553
stuff that you never saw,
1193
00:38:42,953 –> 00:38:43,553
which was,
1194
00:38:43,953 –> 00:38:44,353
you know,
1195
00:38:45,233 –> 00:38:47,993
Mini Cooper wanted you to do a series for them that
1196
00:38:47,993 –> 00:38:49,433
they would put out on their own website.
1197
00:38:49,433 –> 00:38:52,553
And it didn’t have Vice’s imprimatur on it,
1198
00:38:52,553 –> 00:38:54,553
but it was just like Vice did it and it looked cool
1199
00:38:54,553 –> 00:38:57,713
and they had the cool camera guys and an exotic location.
1200
00:38:57,713 –> 00:39:00,033
So there was like a bunch of layers of making money.
1201
00:39:00,433 –> 00:39:03,233
And that was like really successful for a while until
1202
00:39:03,313 –> 00:39:05,633
everybody figured out how to do it.
1203
00:39:05,633 –> 00:39:07,153
And also, I think the real thing,
1204
00:39:07,153 –> 00:39:09,073
I was the only person who actually wrote about this
1205
00:39:09,393 –> 00:39:11,953
because the ideology of so many of the people there
1206
00:39:11,953 –> 00:39:13,473
didn’t want to accept this,
1207
00:39:13,793 –> 00:39:14,793
but it became,
1208
00:39:14,793 –> 00:39:15,793
and again,
1209
00:39:15,793 –> 00:39:16,673
for lack of a better word,
1210
00:39:16,673 –> 00:39:20,433
it became like painfully woke and it became scolding.
1211
00:39:20,673 –> 00:39:23,953
It was like cool and interesting and funny
1212
00:39:24,313 –> 00:39:25,393
And I have to say this,
1213
00:39:25,433 –> 00:39:27,073
and this is the controversial thing to say,
1214
00:39:27,313 –> 00:39:29,073
but it was started by Gavin McGinnis,
1215
00:39:29,153 –> 00:39:30,273
and I mean,
1216
00:39:30,833 –> 00:39:32,033
We had him on the program,
1217
00:39:32,233 –> 00:39:35,873
He walked off when we showed him shoving a dildo up
1218
00:39:36,993 –> 00:39:37,793
Oh, that seems about right.
1219
00:39:37,993 –> 00:39:38,353
And he goes,
1220
00:39:38,353 –> 00:39:39,113
it’s a joke.
1221
00:39:39,113 –> 00:39:39,433
And I’m like,
1222
00:39:39,433 –> 00:39:39,993
it’s a joke.
1223
00:39:39,993 –> 00:39:41,633
Hey, Red, hand me the #2 pencil.
1224
00:39:41,633 –> 00:39:42,313
Shove it up my ass.
1225
00:39:42,313 –> 00:39:43,073
See if I laugh.
1226
00:39:43,313 –> 00:39:44,353
It was funny.
1227
00:39:45,473 –> 00:39:46,273
But Gavin.
1228
00:39:46,833 –> 00:39:48,993
You know, for all of Gavin’s many,
1229
00:39:48,993 –> 00:39:50,353
many, many faults,
1230
00:39:50,673 –> 00:39:51,993
he set the tone of it.
1231
00:39:51,993 –> 00:39:54,273
It was really funny and really irreverent.
1232
00:39:54,553 –> 00:39:55,753
And everyone acknowledges,
1233
00:39:55,753 –> 00:39:56,833
whether they want to or not,
1234
00:39:57,393 –> 00:39:59,593
that Gavin really set the voice of it.
1235
00:39:59,753 –> 00:40:01,233
And Gavin is a funny dude.
1236
00:40:01,393 –> 00:40:03,553
The reason you say that is for people that don’t know,
1237
00:40:03,553 –> 00:40:05,553
he’s also the founder of the Proud Boys.
1238
00:40:05,553 –> 00:40:06,193
Proud Boys,
1239
00:40:06,833 –> 00:40:08,033
So this ultra hip,
1240
00:40:08,193 –> 00:40:10,193
sleek, lower Manhattan,
1241
00:40:10,673 –> 00:40:10,993
you know,
1242
00:40:11,393 –> 00:40:12,033
cool shit.
1243
00:40:12,033 –> 00:40:14,993
One of the founders leaves and founds the Proud Boys.
1244
00:40:16,353 –> 00:40:19,153
It’s always had that politics,
1245
00:40:19,313 –> 00:40:21,233
which is one of the reasons he was forced out,
1246
00:40:21,393 –> 00:40:24,353
but he’s always a bit of a white nationalist there.
1247
00:40:24,993 –> 00:40:26,033
So that’s when it flips,
1248
00:40:26,593 –> 00:40:27,633
Yeah, well,
1249
00:40:27,633 –> 00:40:28,753
it’s around that time.
1250
00:40:28,753 –> 00:40:30,753
They remained for a while,
1251
00:40:31,073 –> 00:40:33,593
but then it becomes just the opposite of that.
1252
00:40:33,593 –> 00:40:34,593
And it is like,
1253
00:40:34,753 –> 00:40:36,673
nobody wants to come home from work.
1254
00:40:37,153 –> 00:40:40,353
and be yelled at by their TV about like,
1255
00:40:40,353 –> 00:40:40,633
you know,
1256
00:40:40,673 –> 00:40:41,953
you have white privilege or whatever.
1257
00:40:41,953 –> 00:40:43,553
That’s just not good television.
1258
00:40:43,553 –> 00:40:44,993
And I think that’s pretty obvious to anyone.
1259
00:40:45,393 –> 00:40:48,353
And I think all of that stuff combined just made it
1260
00:40:48,853 –> 00:40:50,573
It felt like an activist organization,
1261
00:40:50,893 –> 00:40:54,013
much less of a journalistic organization or entertainment
1262
00:40:54,053 –> 00:40:54,773
organization.
1263
00:40:54,813 –> 00:40:56,573
It didn’t have to inform you.
1264
00:40:56,613 –> 00:40:58,933
I mean, there’s a lot of stuff that wasn’t that super
1265
00:40:58,933 –> 00:40:59,453
informative.
1266
00:40:59,933 –> 00:41:02,133
It was probably misinforming you in some ways.
1267
00:41:02,133 –> 00:41:04,133
Like you just mentioned the cannibal thing,
1268
00:41:04,133 –> 00:41:06,333
which is the piece in Liberia.
1269
00:41:06,573 –> 00:41:07,533
I mean, that’s like,
1270
00:41:07,933 –> 00:41:08,333
you know,
1271
00:41:08,493 –> 00:41:10,013
David Carr from the New York Times is like,
1272
00:41:10,053 –> 00:41:10,453
this is the,
1273
00:41:11,413 –> 00:41:11,613
you know,
1274
00:41:11,693 –> 00:41:13,213
it’s just a travesty of journalism,
1275
00:41:13,213 –> 00:41:13,533
whatever.
1276
00:41:13,533 –> 00:41:13,773
It’s like,
1277
00:41:13,773 –> 00:41:15,373
yeah, but it was fun to watch and fun.
1278
00:41:15,893 –> 00:41:17,293
And then Vice tried to get more serious.
1279
00:41:17,333 –> 00:41:18,413
And then when you get more serious,
1280
00:41:18,413 –> 00:41:18,773
you’re hired
1281
00:41:18,893 –> 00:41:21,053
kids from fucking journalism school and they’re the
1282
00:41:21,053 –> 00:41:22,773
most miserable people on the planet.
1283
00:41:23,493 –> 00:41:24,573
I mean, where’s it going?
1284
00:41:24,573 –> 00:41:25,213
Because like,
1285
00:41:25,213 –> 00:41:29,333
again, it can be interesting and fun,
1286
00:41:29,333 –> 00:41:30,653
but it’s got to be accurate.
1287
00:41:30,773 –> 00:41:32,653
And who’s doing that?
1288
00:41:33,093 –> 00:41:34,893
And so this shit’s not going to…
1289
00:41:35,293 –> 00:41:35,933
Well, you know,
1290
00:41:36,493 –> 00:41:39,453
I write a weekly column at the Michigan Enjoyer.
1291
00:41:39,453 –> 00:41:40,733
Just go to Michigan Enjoyer,
1292
00:41:40,733 –> 00:41:41,533
just Google it.
1293
00:41:42,093 –> 00:41:43,733
And, you know,
1294
00:41:43,733 –> 00:41:45,613
I want to thank the editor there because I’m like,
1295
00:41:45,653 –> 00:41:47,133
hey, you know what I do for my column this week?
1296
00:41:49,693 –> 00:41:53,373
Because I got a letter and it was odd.
1297
00:41:53,373 –> 00:41:54,493
It was sad,
1298
00:41:55,573 –> 00:41:56,173
And then I’m like,
1299
00:41:56,413 –> 00:41:57,733
I need to think about this.
1300
00:41:57,733 –> 00:42:00,733
And then I started going through all the academic journals,
1301
00:42:00,733 –> 00:42:01,973
start reading the reports.
1302
00:42:01,973 –> 00:42:02,413
And I’m like,
1303
00:42:02,573 –> 00:42:04,973
this is a real issue,
1304
00:42:05,173 –> 00:42:07,053
This is journalism.
1305
00:42:07,693 –> 00:42:09,453
And it needs to be talked about.
1306
00:42:09,453 –> 00:42:12,493
It’s an epidemic amongst middle-aged men.
1307
00:42:13,053 –> 00:42:14,973
And they went for it.
1308
00:42:15,613 –> 00:42:19,173
But I don’t want to write an academic paper or like
1309
00:42:19,173 –> 00:42:21,133
white guys deserve what they’re getting or whatever.
1310
00:42:22,733 –> 00:42:23,853
Ken Beck’s over here,
1311
00:42:23,893 –> 00:42:24,373
and you know,
1312
00:42:24,373 –> 00:42:31,693
we were really working hard to make something beautiful
1313
00:42:31,933 –> 00:42:33,133
that said something,
1314
00:42:33,133 –> 00:42:34,893
that it is journalism,
1315
00:42:35,213 –> 00:42:37,413
and I’m going to know all the stuff and strip it out
1316
00:42:37,413 –> 00:42:38,653
and just give it to you raw.
1317
00:42:38,653 –> 00:42:42,893
I don’t know if anybody wants to read the academic
1318
00:42:42,893 –> 00:42:43,613
journals anymore.
1319
00:42:46,013 –> 00:42:48,493
That’s what I’m saying,
1320
00:42:48,973 –> 00:42:49,613
Yeah, yeah.
1321
00:42:49,693 –> 00:42:51,853
Somebody sends you a letter and it was,
1322
00:42:53,533 –> 00:42:56,453
the thing at the top of the show is horrible and depressing
1323
00:42:56,453 –> 00:42:57,213
and, you know,
1324
00:42:57,693 –> 00:42:58,493
and moving.
1325
00:42:58,733 –> 00:43:00,173
And, you know,
1326
00:43:00,253 –> 00:43:00,693
your job,
1327
00:43:00,693 –> 00:43:03,293
obviously you get that letter is to convey that,
1328
00:43:03,293 –> 00:43:05,213
but then put the meat on the bones and say,
1329
00:43:05,213 –> 00:43:07,133
this is actually a real issue.
1330
00:43:07,693 –> 00:43:09,773
And despair is a real issue.
1331
00:43:09,773 –> 00:43:10,973
Is it because of
1332
00:43:11,373 –> 00:43:12,893
people’s economic situations?
1333
00:43:12,893 –> 00:43:13,773
Is it because of,
1334
00:43:13,773 –> 00:43:14,013
you know,
1335
00:43:14,013 –> 00:43:15,693
outsourcing or whatever you want to say?
1336
00:43:15,693 –> 00:43:17,453
I mean, there’s a million ways of looking into it.
1337
00:43:17,773 –> 00:43:20,173
But yeah, that is what journalism is.
1338
00:43:20,173 –> 00:43:20,973
It’s not, I mean,
1339
00:43:21,213 –> 00:43:23,173
it’s not just going out in the street.
1340
00:43:23,173 –> 00:43:24,893
It’s not just talking to people in bars,
1341
00:43:24,893 –> 00:43:26,893
talking to people at their place of work.
1342
00:43:26,893 –> 00:43:28,053
I had a funny thing,
1343
00:43:28,053 –> 00:43:29,053
and you’ll appreciate this.
1344
00:43:29,053 –> 00:43:30,293
I was out at a
1345
00:43:31,573 –> 00:43:32,973
a factory in,
1346
00:43:33,133 –> 00:43:34,173
I can’t remember where it was,
1347
00:43:34,173 –> 00:43:35,133
maybe it was in Kentucky.
1348
00:43:35,133 –> 00:43:36,813
We went to the bar afterwards,
1349
00:43:36,813 –> 00:43:37,773
we’d finished shooting,
1350
00:43:38,013 –> 00:43:39,413
and I had a producer there with me,
1351
00:43:39,853 –> 00:43:41,533
who is just a Brooklyn guy,
1352
00:43:41,853 –> 00:43:44,373
and we walked out of the bar after having like 700
1353
00:43:44,373 –> 00:43:45,693
beers, and he looked at me,
1354
00:43:45,733 –> 00:43:46,213
I swear to God,
1355
00:43:46,213 –> 00:43:46,653
and he said,
1356
00:43:46,893 –> 00:43:47,933
wow, it’s crazy,
1357
00:43:47,933 –> 00:43:50,453
like that place is more diverse than any of the bars
1358
00:43:50,453 –> 00:43:51,493
that I go into in Brooklyn.
1359
00:43:51,493 –> 00:43:52,653
I was like,
1360
00:43:53,453 –> 00:43:54,973
yeah, there’s people from the factory floor,
1361
00:43:54,973 –> 00:43:57,773
black and Hispanic and like immigrants and like white
1362
00:43:57,773 –> 00:43:58,653
guys, and like,
1363
00:43:59,013 –> 00:44:00,493
and they’re all just drinking and having,
1364
00:44:00,493 –> 00:44:01,493
like they all share the same
1365
00:44:02,333 –> 00:44:04,173
And they don’t do that in Brooklyn.
1366
00:44:04,253 –> 00:44:04,733
And that like,
1367
00:44:04,733 –> 00:44:05,773
that’s just not like,
1368
00:44:06,013 –> 00:44:06,413
it doesn’t,
1369
00:44:06,413 –> 00:44:08,013
they can’t imagine this stuff.
1370
00:44:08,253 –> 00:44:11,613
And it’s all through the prism of some very particular
1371
00:44:11,613 –> 00:44:12,093
ideology.
1372
00:44:12,093 –> 00:44:13,053
But to your point,
1373
00:44:13,053 –> 00:44:15,853
it’s like reporting is one thing,
1374
00:44:15,933 –> 00:44:18,413
but aggregating material
1375
00:44:19,013 –> 00:44:19,853
that is, you know,
1376
00:44:20,013 –> 00:44:22,173
other people don’t have the time or the interest to
1377
00:44:22,173 –> 00:44:24,493
do, like go to the academic journals and what does
1378
00:44:24,493 –> 00:44:25,373
all this stuff mean?
1379
00:44:25,373 –> 00:44:26,533
We’re translators too.
1380
00:44:26,533 –> 00:44:29,293
I mean, that’s what we have to do is translate stuff
1381
00:44:29,693 –> 00:44:33,053
that might be a little boring for other people.
1382
00:44:33,053 –> 00:44:35,613
I don’t think above people’s pay grade and saying we’re
1383
00:44:35,613 –> 00:44:36,653
smarter, you know,
1384
00:44:36,813 –> 00:44:37,413
people are dumber.
1385
00:44:37,413 –> 00:44:38,333
I don’t think that at all.
1386
00:44:38,573 –> 00:44:41,053
I think it’s just the job is like you have to go through,
1387
00:44:41,693 –> 00:44:41,933
you know,
1388
00:44:42,413 –> 00:44:43,893
and sift through this stuff and say,
1389
00:44:43,893 –> 00:44:45,173
okay, what is actually happening?
1390
00:44:45,173 –> 00:44:47,373
Like, I remember telling people in the George Floyd
1391
00:44:47,373 –> 00:44:48,333
stuff when I,
1392
00:44:48,573 –> 00:44:48,893
there was
1393
00:44:49,013 –> 00:44:50,253
It’s a really interesting poll.
1394
00:44:50,293 –> 00:44:52,973
And this tells you a lot of we asked people,
1395
00:44:53,453 –> 00:44:56,173
how many unarmed black men do you think are killed
1396
00:44:56,173 –> 00:44:57,053
by the police every year?
1397
00:44:57,373 –> 00:44:58,693
And there were like 20,
1398
00:44:58,693 –> 00:45:00,613
30% of people said like over 1000.
1399
00:45:01,413 –> 00:45:03,013
I mean, the number is like 16.
1400
00:45:03,013 –> 00:45:06,693
And it was like that year was like 18 or 16 or something.
1401
00:45:06,693 –> 00:45:07,893
There’s a database of this stuff.
1402
00:45:08,373 –> 00:45:09,613
And even when you break that down,
1403
00:45:09,653 –> 00:45:11,533
a lot of the officers were black themselves.
1404
00:45:11,973 –> 00:45:14,173
Do people mistake a cell phone for a gun?
1405
00:45:14,173 –> 00:45:15,853
It wasn’t just like gunning people down the streets.
1406
00:45:16,213 –> 00:45:19,413
But like somebody’s got to go through that material
1407
00:45:19,413 –> 00:45:20,333
and say, guys,
1408
00:45:20,733 –> 00:45:23,133
I know what the general media coverage is making you
1409
00:45:23,133 –> 00:45:25,213
think, but the actual truth of this is a little more
1410
00:45:25,213 –> 00:45:25,853
complicated.
1411
00:45:26,293 –> 00:45:28,293
And that’s what your job as a sort of journalistic
1412
00:45:28,293 –> 00:45:30,053
translator is half the time.
1413
00:45:30,053 –> 00:45:31,493
It’s not just it’s not just reporting,
1414
00:45:31,493 –> 00:45:32,573
although that is obviously
1415
00:45:33,413 –> 00:45:34,133
It’s really important.
1416
00:45:34,133 –> 00:45:36,013
And I know that’s what you’ve spent your life doing,
1417
00:45:36,013 –> 00:45:38,053
is like just going out and talking to people,
1418
00:45:38,053 –> 00:45:41,173
which is the most fun part of the job.
1419
00:45:41,173 –> 00:45:43,053
I don’t know why people know it’s fucking great.
1420
00:45:43,053 –> 00:45:43,613
You know, I mean,
1421
00:45:43,613 –> 00:45:44,413
it takes a lot of,
1422
00:45:44,573 –> 00:45:46,413
when we talk about crime statistics and they’re going
1423
00:45:46,413 –> 00:45:51,333
down, it takes some time to like be in a car with
1424
00:45:51,333 –> 00:45:53,533
a cop, show up to a homicide scene,
1425
00:45:53,613 –> 00:45:54,893
write the stories,
1426
00:45:55,133 –> 00:45:56,253
And start building.
1427
00:45:56,253 –> 00:45:58,493
Then you start getting familiar with crime statistics.
1428
00:45:58,493 –> 00:46:02,173
Then you realize the FBI does 2 surveys.
1429
00:46:02,773 –> 00:46:04,573
One, the cops give me your data,
1430
00:46:04,773 –> 00:46:07,253
and it talks to people that were victimized.
1431
00:46:07,293 –> 00:46:08,653
And they used to,
1432
00:46:08,973 –> 00:46:11,173
used to be more people were victimized than the cops
1433
00:46:11,173 –> 00:46:11,693
were telling you,
1434
00:46:11,693 –> 00:46:12,093
of course,
1435
00:46:12,093 –> 00:46:12,773
cops want to look good,
1436
00:46:12,973 –> 00:46:14,533
but they tracked each other.
1437
00:46:14,533 –> 00:46:15,453
They were parallel,
1438
00:46:15,453 –> 00:46:15,693
you know,
1439
00:46:15,693 –> 00:46:17,773
it was like off 10%,
1440
00:46:19,333 –> 00:46:20,413
In the last four years,
1441
00:46:20,653 –> 00:46:22,653
they started diverging,
1442
00:46:23,293 –> 00:46:27,053
So the FBI quietly readjusts
1443
00:46:27,653 –> 00:46:29,213
its own crime statistics.
1444
00:46:29,213 –> 00:46:30,333
It didn’t tell anybody.
1445
00:46:30,573 –> 00:46:32,413
But in my city,
1446
00:46:32,733 –> 00:46:36,013
I found that in the last 10 years of this mayor,
1447
00:46:36,013 –> 00:46:38,413
300 bodies are missing from the homicide count.
1448
00:46:38,573 –> 00:46:40,733
You just, you go to the morgue.
1449
00:46:40,813 –> 00:46:42,813
They’re the ones that declare cause of death.
1450
00:46:43,373 –> 00:46:44,893
Where are these 300 bodies?
1451
00:46:45,213 –> 00:46:48,653
So when the mayor’s given his rosy state of the city
1452
00:46:48,653 –> 00:46:49,293
last night,
1453
00:46:49,373 –> 00:46:50,413
everybody just buys it.
1454
00:46:50,853 –> 00:46:53,133
I’m like, you can’t just buy it.
1455
00:46:53,133 –> 00:46:55,133
It’s not an accurate portrayal.
1456
00:46:55,613 –> 00:46:57,693
And it’s just snowing everybody.
1457
00:46:57,693 –> 00:47:00,813
And it’s the woke crowd out of college.
1458
00:47:01,213 –> 00:47:02,173
It really is.
1459
00:47:02,733 –> 00:47:05,333
I did a story for Vice a long time ago where I went
1460
00:47:05,333 –> 00:47:07,333
to Venezuela and where Caracas,
1461
00:47:07,333 –> 00:47:08,493
when Chavez was still alive,
1462
00:47:08,853 –> 00:47:11,293
and it was like the murder capital of the world at
1463
00:47:11,293 –> 00:47:11,773
the time.
1464
00:47:12,093 –> 00:47:13,653
And this is what governments do.
1465
00:47:13,653 –> 00:47:16,653
And this is what journalists are needed for,
1466
00:47:16,653 –> 00:47:17,653
not my journalism,
1467
00:47:17,653 –> 00:47:19,053
but the journalists in Venezuela,
1468
00:47:19,053 –> 00:47:19,933
because we hung out with them,
1469
00:47:20,253 –> 00:47:21,853
is they stopped releasing the figures.
1470
00:47:23,013 –> 00:47:24,573
of murders because it was so,
1471
00:47:24,573 –> 00:47:27,133
it was like globally very bad for them.
1472
00:47:27,133 –> 00:47:29,053
You know, they have this big socialist revolution.
1473
00:47:29,053 –> 00:47:30,773
It was supposed to be great and everyone’s being killed
1474
00:47:30,773 –> 00:47:31,213
in the street.
1475
00:47:31,453 –> 00:47:33,933
So we went out with the cops and went to like a bunch
1476
00:47:33,933 –> 00:47:36,973
of homicide scenes and the number in a day was absolutely
1477
00:47:36,973 –> 00:47:37,533
stunning.
1478
00:47:37,853 –> 00:47:39,533
But then we went out with the journalists and they
1479
00:47:39,533 –> 00:47:40,813
weren’t, they weren’t getting out the figures.
1480
00:47:40,813 –> 00:47:41,773
So what did the journalists do?
1481
00:47:42,253 –> 00:47:43,133
They went to the morgue.
1482
00:47:43,813 –> 00:47:46,093
and they hung out there and they counted the bodies
1483
00:47:46,093 –> 00:47:46,773
as they came in.
1484
00:47:46,773 –> 00:47:49,693
And they created their own statistics because obviously,
1485
00:47:49,973 –> 00:47:53,213
whether it’s the mayor of Detroit or the dictator
1486
00:47:53,253 –> 00:47:54,013
of Venezuela,
1487
00:47:54,013 –> 00:47:55,413
they don’t want you to know these things.
1488
00:47:55,413 –> 00:47:59,173
And that’s the kind of value of journalism in that
1489
00:47:59,373 –> 00:48:01,733
And you’re seeing these guys are getting paid absolutely
1490
00:48:02,253 –> 00:48:04,053
They’re getting persecuted by the government and they’re
1491
00:48:04,053 –> 00:48:07,253
camped out in front of a single morgue in Caracas
1492
00:48:07,693 –> 00:48:11,693
counting the dead bodies because no one will put them
1493
00:48:11,693 –> 00:48:13,533
in a statistic because it makes them look bad.
1494
00:48:14,573 –> 00:48:15,853
And why is it important?
1495
00:48:16,213 –> 00:48:17,213
Why is it important to know?
1496
00:48:18,773 –> 00:48:19,453
Yeah, I mean,
1497
00:48:20,093 –> 00:48:22,813
it’s important to know for a million reasons,
1498
00:48:22,813 –> 00:48:23,453
but it’s,
1499
00:48:23,453 –> 00:48:25,693
I think that people also get hung up on statistics
1500
00:48:25,693 –> 00:48:27,293
too, in the sense that,
1501
00:48:27,293 –> 00:48:27,773
you know,
1502
00:48:28,093 –> 00:48:29,333
the thing in New York City,
1503
00:48:29,333 –> 00:48:30,813
when you’re talking about crime going down,
1504
00:48:30,813 –> 00:48:33,133
and that’s true in certain categories,
1505
00:48:33,133 –> 00:48:33,853
not true in others,
1506
00:48:34,253 –> 00:48:38,093
but like the general unease that you felt when you’re
1507
00:48:38,093 –> 00:48:40,573
in like Midtown in front of the Roosevelt Hotel that
1508
00:48:40,573 –> 00:48:42,173
was kind of warehousing migrants,
1509
00:48:42,653 –> 00:48:43,733
or you’re in Queens,
1510
00:48:43,853 –> 00:48:44,813
which has become,
1511
00:48:45,133 –> 00:48:45,293
you know,
1512
00:48:45,293 –> 00:48:48,573
certain parts of Queens with these kind of migrant,
1513
00:48:48,653 –> 00:48:48,933
you know,
1514
00:48:49,373 –> 00:48:50,693
vendors and prostitution.
1515
00:48:50,693 –> 00:48:52,253
The New York Post was doing all these stories on it.
1516
00:48:52,573 –> 00:48:55,453
That sense of unease is really hard to capture in a
1517
00:48:55,453 –> 00:48:56,013
statistic.
1518
00:48:56,613 –> 00:48:59,453
And to say that like all the crazy people on the subway,
1519
00:48:59,893 –> 00:49:02,333
all that kind of just general feeling of menace when
1520
00:49:02,333 –> 00:49:05,133
someone looks at the numbers and they tell you from
1521
00:49:05,893 –> 00:49:07,613
sort of home in Atherton,
1522
00:49:07,613 –> 00:49:08,333
California,
1523
00:49:08,333 –> 00:49:11,413
that you’re imagining it because the statistics don’t
1524
00:49:11,413 –> 00:49:11,933
tell you.
1525
00:49:12,493 –> 00:49:13,453
That’s another,
1526
00:49:13,453 –> 00:49:14,413
on the other end of it,
1527
00:49:14,413 –> 00:49:16,413
they matter to track,
1528
00:49:16,813 –> 00:49:17,133
you know,
1529
00:49:17,133 –> 00:49:21,373
exactly how good a government is operating if they
1530
00:49:21,373 –> 00:49:22,013
are actually,
1531
00:49:22,173 –> 00:49:22,413
you know,
1532
00:49:22,413 –> 00:49:24,253
putting money and effort into policing.
1533
00:49:24,573 –> 00:49:25,373
But then again,
1534
00:49:25,373 –> 00:49:27,213
there’s all those things that people think attracts
1535
00:49:27,213 –> 00:49:27,613
everything,
1536
00:49:27,613 –> 00:49:28,173
but it doesn’t.
1537
00:49:28,773 –> 00:49:31,733
I mean, you never call the police when someone is screaming
1538
00:49:31,733 –> 00:49:33,133
at the top of the lungs on your subway car.
1539
00:49:33,213 –> 00:49:33,813
Nobody does that.
1540
00:49:34,253 –> 00:49:34,973
So that’s just like,
1541
00:49:35,053 –> 00:49:35,453
that’s not,
1542
00:49:35,573 –> 00:49:36,573
where is that being,
1543
00:49:37,853 –> 00:49:38,253
you know,
1544
00:49:38,693 –> 00:49:40,293
sort of put in any statistic?
1545
00:49:40,293 –> 00:49:40,933
You can’t,
1546
00:49:41,093 –> 00:49:41,733
I mean, you can’t,
1547
00:49:41,773 –> 00:49:42,613
you can’t do that.
1548
00:49:42,613 –> 00:49:43,613
I mean, the job,
1549
00:49:43,613 –> 00:49:44,213
the job, dude,
1550
00:49:44,213 –> 00:49:46,173
is to hold up a mirror to society,
1551
00:49:47,173 –> 00:49:50,013
And, and, and always,
1552
00:49:50,293 –> 00:49:54,093
and what’s one thing that’s dying that I miss is,
1553
00:49:54,093 –> 00:49:55,053
is feature stories.
1554
00:49:55,613 –> 00:49:55,973
I like to,
1555
00:49:56,133 –> 00:49:57,693
when I, when I was at the Times,
1556
00:49:57,693 –> 00:49:58,013
you know,
1557
00:49:58,893 –> 00:49:59,533
I always said,
1558
00:49:59,613 –> 00:50:01,133
I want to be the Hey George guy.
1559
00:50:01,773 –> 00:50:05,453
The Hey George guy is a couple sitting down to breakfast
1560
00:50:06,173 –> 00:50:08,813
and Mildred is looking at a feature store.
1561
00:50:08,813 –> 00:50:09,853
He says, Hey George,
1562
00:50:10,053 –> 00:50:10,973
did you see this?
1563
00:50:11,373 –> 00:50:15,253
You know, I once got a message on my machine and I
1564
00:50:15,253 –> 00:50:18,693
had written about opening day straight bass fishing
1565
00:50:18,693 –> 00:50:19,533
in Jamaica Bay.
1566
00:50:19,933 –> 00:50:23,693
You know, there’s still trappers and hunters out in
1567
00:50:23,693 –> 00:50:25,213
the water right off of
1568
00:50:25,973 –> 00:50:27,293
Kennedy, JFK,
1569
00:50:27,373 –> 00:50:28,493
airport, it’s amazing.
1570
00:50:28,973 –> 00:50:29,773
And there was a guy who goes,
1571
00:50:29,773 –> 00:50:30,973
hey, Charlie,
1572
00:50:30,973 –> 00:50:31,853
you don’t know me,
1573
00:50:32,093 –> 00:50:38,493
but I clipped the story you wrote about opening day
1574
00:50:38,493 –> 00:50:39,453
for the stripers,
1575
00:50:39,453 –> 00:50:40,973
and I put it in my drawer,
1576
00:50:40,973 –> 00:50:42,813
and whenever I’m feeling down,
1577
00:50:42,813 –> 00:50:46,613
Charlie, I like to take that out and read that,
1578
00:50:46,613 –> 00:50:49,453
and I just want to let you know that I took that out
1579
00:50:49,453 –> 00:50:50,173
of the drawer today.
1580
00:50:50,173 –> 00:50:50,893
Have a good day.
1581
00:50:51,853 –> 00:50:52,573
That’s great.
1582
00:50:52,573 –> 00:50:53,133
I’ll never,
1583
00:50:53,533 –> 00:50:55,253
ever forget it,
1584
00:50:55,453 –> 00:50:55,773
you know?
1585
00:50:55,773 –> 00:50:58,173
So it’s like a record of who we are,
1586
00:50:58,333 –> 00:50:59,453
what’s going on,
1587
00:50:59,613 –> 00:51:01,373
holding the powerful to account.
1588
00:51:01,613 –> 00:51:04,093
It’s not really supposed to be about your prestige.
1589
00:51:05,133 –> 00:51:06,453
If you want prestige,
1590
00:51:06,453 –> 00:51:08,413
try another career.
1591
00:51:08,853 –> 00:51:10,573
And I don’t know if there’s a career in this anymore,
1592
00:51:10,573 –> 00:51:11,613
but I don’t know what else to do,
1593
00:51:11,853 –> 00:51:13,613
So a couple of guys like us,
1594
00:51:13,613 –> 00:51:14,373
we just find ourselves.
1595
00:51:14,373 –> 00:51:16,573
Let’s see if we can take some of the old stuff,
1596
00:51:16,573 –> 00:51:18,893
create the new stuff and push it all forward.
1597
00:51:19,093 –> 00:51:20,893
Because it is a hell of a time.
1598
00:51:21,493 –> 00:51:24,093
I think that maybe you’ve experiences too,
1599
00:51:24,093 –> 00:51:24,893
but you know,
1600
00:51:24,973 –> 00:51:26,013
part of the career now,
1601
00:51:26,653 –> 00:51:27,173
you have to,
1602
00:51:27,853 –> 00:51:28,053
you know,
1603
00:51:28,053 –> 00:51:29,773
just be depressed and accept that you’re not going
1604
00:51:29,773 –> 00:51:30,253
to be able to,
1605
00:51:30,253 –> 00:51:31,373
you know,
1606
00:51:31,373 –> 00:51:33,333
run around the world and do the shit that you did
1607
00:51:33,333 –> 00:51:33,853
in the past.
1608
00:51:33,933 –> 00:51:34,493
But we did.
1609
00:51:35,293 –> 00:51:35,733
Yeah, we did.
1610
00:51:35,733 –> 00:51:36,213
That was fun.
1611
00:51:36,213 –> 00:51:37,133
I mean, it was incredible,
1612
00:51:37,133 –> 00:51:39,213
but the personal connection stuff is what we do now,
1613
00:51:39,213 –> 00:51:40,413
is what I do now anyway,
1614
00:51:40,653 –> 00:51:43,453
is that the podcast that I do regularly,
1615
00:51:43,453 –> 00:51:44,173
the Fifth Column,
1616
00:51:44,893 –> 00:51:46,413
we have an enormous
1617
00:51:46,773 –> 00:51:47,533
listener base.
1618
00:51:47,573 –> 00:51:47,933
And, you know,
1619
00:51:47,933 –> 00:51:50,973
we’ve had people that met each other and got married
1620
00:51:50,973 –> 00:51:51,373
through it.
1621
00:51:51,373 –> 00:51:54,253
They have their own like text chains.
1622
00:51:54,253 –> 00:51:56,013
They come to live shows that we do.
1623
00:51:56,413 –> 00:51:58,613
And that kind of stuff where people said,
1624
00:51:58,613 –> 00:52:00,093
particularly during the pandemic,
1625
00:52:00,333 –> 00:52:01,693
the number of emails that people said,
1626
00:52:01,693 –> 00:52:01,933
you know,
1627
00:52:01,933 –> 00:52:03,453
I feel like I know you guys.
1628
00:52:03,533 –> 00:52:07,373
I’m like locked in in the middle of nowhere.
1629
00:52:07,373 –> 00:52:08,973
I can’t interact with anyone.
1630
00:52:09,373 –> 00:52:11,213
And I listen to you guys shooting the shit.
1631
00:52:11,213 –> 00:52:13,373
And it’s like it became a very personal thing,
1632
00:52:13,813 –> 00:52:16,013
that like the journalism went from going out on the
1633
00:52:16,013 –> 00:52:18,653
road all the time to people like writing you about
1634
00:52:18,733 –> 00:52:19,213
their problems.
1635
00:52:20,013 –> 00:52:21,613
And like it was like,
1636
00:52:21,613 –> 00:52:22,853
you’re dear fucking Abby now.
1637
00:52:23,293 –> 00:52:23,933
You’re dear Abby.
1638
00:52:24,013 –> 00:52:24,373
Yeah, I mean,
1639
00:52:25,133 –> 00:52:26,493
it’s like I didn’t sign up for it.
1640
00:52:27,573 –> 00:52:29,813
I’m writing about my dead buddy in a trash can and
1641
00:52:29,813 –> 00:52:30,893
you’re doing Dear Abby.
1642
00:52:31,453 –> 00:52:32,653
Why didn’t I think of that?
1643
00:52:33,293 –> 00:52:34,173
Yeah, that’s it.
1644
00:52:34,253 –> 00:52:36,653
It’s a Dear Abby thing and it’s a very personal thing.
1645
00:52:36,653 –> 00:52:37,773
People like become,
1646
00:52:38,013 –> 00:52:39,533
they get to know you in that way,
1647
00:52:39,533 –> 00:52:40,173
the podcast,
1648
00:52:40,173 –> 00:52:41,093
that’s the difference.
1649
00:52:41,093 –> 00:52:42,893
I mean, it’s not reporting in the sense that you used
1650
00:52:42,893 –> 00:52:43,293
to do it,
1651
00:52:43,693 –> 00:52:46,253
but I think it’s valuable in the sense that people
1652
00:52:47,213 –> 00:52:48,933
really get something out of it that I didn’t expect.
1653
00:52:49,373 –> 00:52:50,813
I really didn’t expect it at all.
1654
00:52:50,813 –> 00:52:53,093
You know this in the new world.
1655
00:52:53,373 –> 00:52:54,413
When I post this bitch,
1656
00:52:54,413 –> 00:52:56,453
I don’t want to look at like an hour plus and people
1657
00:52:56,453 –> 00:52:56,653
are like,
1658
00:52:56,653 –> 00:52:57,533
no fucking way.
1659
00:52:57,613 –> 00:53:00,013
So we’re getting out of here before we hit the hour
1660
00:53:00,253 –> 00:53:03,533
I want to look at my daughter right there and say,
1661
00:53:03,533 –> 00:53:06,413
Claude, this guy is the OG.
1662
00:53:06,493 –> 00:53:07,933
You know, when you’re looking at
1663
00:53:08,573 –> 00:53:10,973
TikTok and YouTube and the shorts,
1664
00:53:11,453 –> 00:53:14,173
This was the first generation to do it.
1665
00:53:15,053 –> 00:53:16,333
And he’s still here.
1666
00:53:16,493 –> 00:53:17,533
He’s still youngish.
1667
00:53:18,413 –> 00:53:20,093
You know, he’s the OG.
1668
00:53:20,413 –> 00:53:21,533
It’s Michael Moynihan.
1669
00:53:22,253 –> 00:53:23,533
Check out the Moynihan Report,
1670
00:53:23,533 –> 00:53:24,333
the fifth column.
1671
00:53:24,413 –> 00:53:25,853
You write stuff for the Free Press,
1672
00:53:25,853 –> 00:53:26,253
don’t you?
1673
00:53:27,053 –> 00:53:27,733
Yeah, occasionally.
1674
00:53:28,093 –> 00:53:28,813
Yeah, there you go.
1675
00:53:29,053 –> 00:53:29,933
The OG, man.
1676
00:53:29,933 –> 00:53:30,653
Thanks for being on,
1677
00:53:31,053 –> 00:53:31,653
It was great.
1678
00:53:31,653 –> 00:53:32,013
Thank you,
1679
00:53:32,493 –> 00:53:32,933
Good to see you,
1680
00:53:33,253 –> 00:53:35,933
And look me up next time you’re in Detroit and bring
1681
00:53:35,933 –> 00:53:36,693
some of those Xanax.
1682
00:53:38,813 –> 00:53:39,973
Don’t know what you’re talking about.
1683
00:53:40,013 –> 00:53:40,973
Yeah, wink.
1684
00:53:42,093 –> 00:53:42,573
See you, brother.
