No BS Newshour Episode #375
Michigan’s Epstein Island
SHOCKING DETAILS
Before there was Jeffrey Epstein’s Little St. James, Michigan had its own pedophile island owned by a millionaire tied to an international cabal of powerful people.
Unlike Epstein he was able to avoid justice. They all did.
(23:22) Author J. Reuben Appelman is back with the sordid story of North Fox Island in Lake Michigan and its central role in the Oakland County Child Killer cases and international child pornography ring, which remain “unsolved.”
The elites knew about it. Congress even held hearings. And yet nothing was done about it.
Appleman’s dogged hunt takes him from Lake Michigan to Detroit’s Cass Corridor to Europe and Asia.
A case as fascinating as it is horrifying.
(8:18) PLUS- His new book While Idaho Slept. The Hunt for Answers in the Murders of Four College Students.
(0:04) AND- Don’t let local news put you to sleep. Here’s what you need to know in 75 seconds.
NBN on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@NoBSNewshour
NBN on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/no-bs-newshour-with-charlie-leduff/id1754976617
NBN on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qMLWg6goiLQCRom8QNndC
Like NBN on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LeDuffCharlie
Follow to NBN on Twitter : https://x.com/charlieleduff
Sponsored by American Coney Island, Pinnacle Wealth Strategies, XG Service Group, and Archangel Senior Management
TRANSCRIPT:
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Can’t sleep?
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Watch the local news.
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Want the news?
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No makeup?
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No BS?
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Give me 75 seconds.
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New theory on the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa.
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Investigators now believe the disappeared teamster
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was kidnapped,
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put through a sausage grinder,
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and incinerated.
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If found, his ashes could be combined with the dirt
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from the Northland Mall and buried in Detroit,
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next to Mike Duggan’s political career.
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And here comes all the bullshit.
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Cartel Wolf is on the lam.
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Sources say a man with ties to Hezbollah,
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who was led into Dearborn,
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Michigan under the Biden administration,
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despite the fact that he was on the terror watch list,
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has tampered with his tether,
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his current whereabouts unknown.
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Maybe they should check for him in Rashida Tlaib’s
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wine cellar.
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The Couchsurfing megachurch pastor Solomon Kinloch
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got some testifying to do.
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He’s got a mansion in the burbs,
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a chauffeur on call,
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but claims he moved into a Detroit flop house last
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year to establish residency in a bid to become the
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city’s next mayor.
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But did he really?
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Because the suit has now been filed,
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claiming the good reverend lied.
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Now Kinloch will have to swear to God.
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Can I get an amen?
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You about to make me act a folk up in here.
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Meanwhile,
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Michigan is imploding.
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So where is jet-setting Governor Gretchen Whitmer?
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hiding from her $20 million coffee pot scandal.
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That’s where maybe they should look for her and Rashida
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Tlaib’s wine cellar.
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And now, some beagles.
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Live from downtown Detroit,
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it’s the No Bullshit News Hour with my main man,
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Charlie Lesdau.
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And Karen Dumas.
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Assistant breaking this.
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Double or bullshit.
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Double or bullshit.
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I’m Grace Karos,
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and I’m third generation of American Coney Island.
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People say Detroit’s a comeback city.
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I say, where you’ve been?
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We’ve been here for over 100 years.
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My family’s been here on the same corner,
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serving our famous proprietary American Coney Island
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hot dog.
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So like always,
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we’re keeping things fresh,
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updated, and new.
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We’d love to have you come downtown and visit us,
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but if you can’t,
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you can always go to americanconeyisland.com,
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order a Coney kit,
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get it delivered fresh right to your door.
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This message of Uplift is brought to you by business
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and personal wealth advisor Luke Nowacki,
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who reminds you that what does it profit a man to
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gain the whole world,
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but never enter the kingdom of God?
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But while you’re waiting,
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Nowacki wants you to remember that overreaction is
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not a sound financial strategy.
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So call Luke Nowacki at 248-663-4748 for sound financial
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advice.
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when it rains,
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the power goes out.
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And when the power goes out,
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the internet goes out.
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When the internet goes out,
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I call my friend Matt and Bernie at XG Service Group.
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Look at Bernie here on his hands and knees,
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giving it everything he’s got.
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Look at that man crack.
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So busy.
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He forgot to wear a belt.
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There’s Matt right there getting the board together.
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That’s 734-245-4100.
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If you need Matt and Bernie to come take care of your
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voice over internet,
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your security cameras,
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off-campus access control,
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Wi-Fi and cameras for homes and business,
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they’ll design it for you.
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got restaurants,
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they do drive-thru systems,
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railroad cameras for public safety.
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Total wireless camera systems for your home and business.
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Yeah, that’s right.
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Call XG Services at 734-245-4100.
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Well, Karen is still at home,
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feeling sorry for herself,
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licking her paws.
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So we have Jason Rowe sit in there.
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Not a bad guy to sit in.
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Look at those legs.
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Look at this.
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That is some golfing right there,
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man.
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How do you do that?
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How do I do that?
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What kind of product you?
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That cocoa butter on the side?
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You save those?
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Land by the pool.
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Do you shave those?
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No.
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Dude, it’s a little weird.
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I’m straight.
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What?
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I identify.
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A little manscape is.
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Heterosexual.
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Can be heterosexual,
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dude.
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I mean, you’re wearing pink.
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God’s sake.
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Money makes men bold.
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And what this is a J.
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Rubin Appleman.
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People might remember anyway,
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like, I don’t even know how to describe you,
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bro.
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Like, you’re from here,
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but you’re like,
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again, one of the country’s best true crime writers
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wrote The Kill Jar.
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I read that.
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in one sitting,
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about the Oakland County child killer.
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Do you think that they tried to get you too?
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Well, man,
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that’s how it started,
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my interest in the book,
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in the story,
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but maybe,
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not.
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I was like 6 or 7 years old.
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Somebody tried to snatch me up in Southfield.
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Car matched the description a little bit.
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circumstances match the description or the MO of the
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alleged killer,
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but, I think from reading the book,
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I don’t believe it was like an Oakland County child
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killer period.
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There were multiple people involved,
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pornography,
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child rape,
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things like that.
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I mean, I don’t know what to tell you,
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brother, but like,
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people still say,
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oh, who was the Oakland County child killer?
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They got it all wrong.
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You got to read the books.
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You got to see the shows.
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So.
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And
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That’s kind of like,
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I read the book a while ago,
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but I mean,
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it was considered,
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I think the New York Times called it one of the best
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true crime books of 2018.
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Is that right?
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Yeah, when it came out,
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yeah, In fact,
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it’s funny because they call it a true crime memoir
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now.
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When I was trying to get it published for five fucking
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years, they were going to everybody.
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Everybody was saying,
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I don’t know if this is true crime or memoir.
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I don’t know if this is true crime or memoir.
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It’s great,
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but we don’t know what to do with it.
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Then the first blurb I got when it was finally published
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was something like a brave new voice in the
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the true crime memoir genre.
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Like they made-up the genre so they could sell my book.
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So you’re dominating that category.
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Well, I’ll Be Gone in the Dark had come out like the
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year before,
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which sort of opened the door for my book to come
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out, but yeah.
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And we’ll get to all that.
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Any other shit to take care of here?
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Oh yeah.
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Remember, next Wednesday,
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a week from today,
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it’s Hoffa Night.
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Scott Bernstein,
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Rick Combatino,
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and Novo Toko.
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will reveal their findings,
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their investigation as to who killed Jimmy Hoffa,
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new FBI files,
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recorded tapes with the supposed killer,
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right?
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A wire.
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Should be interesting.
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It’s going to be at the Macomb Community College.
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South Campus,
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and it’s a whole multimedia thing.
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It’s not just those three talking.
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I mean, there’s,
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you know,
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pictures,
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like you said,
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the wiretap,
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which is kind of interesting.
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So it’s a pretty cool.
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I’m going to go to it.
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Yeah, no, it sounds like a good thing.
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And that’s the 50th anniversary.
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This is the 50th anniversary.
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Oh, you know what I should do?
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I shouldn’t say this because,
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you know,
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the media watches this and just steals all my work
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and doesn’t give me any credit.
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I might go to the Red Fox,
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which is now on the Amos.
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Oh, yeah.
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on the 50th anniversary.
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You know what I mean?
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It’s going to be a fucking tour.
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I was there the other night and the bartender was telling
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me busloads of people show up every year for the anniversary
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looking for…
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Clues, evidence,
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stealing silverware,
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crazy shit.
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I think the only thing that’s still like there that
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is close to him is the pay phone that was on the wall.
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No, it’s gone.
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There’s got stolen,
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but there’s an outline of it,
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right?
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I think on the wall,
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yeah, which is okay.
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It got stolen?
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Yeah.
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So he had it in the basement.
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Someone broke into the restaurant and stole it out
258
00:07:27,840 –> 00:07:28,400
of the basement.
259
00:07:28,480 –> 00:07:30,080
What, just the phone hanging on the wall?
260
00:07:30,400 –> 00:07:32,240
I don’t know if it was the phone booth or just the
261
00:07:32,240 –> 00:07:32,360
phone.
262
00:07:32,360 –> 00:07:34,360
Probably a PA from that movie they did.
263
00:07:34,560 –> 00:07:36,080
The Irishman.
264
00:07:36,960 –> 00:07:38,760
Another funny thing the bartender told me is.
265
00:07:38,880 –> 00:07:40,960
Diamos used to be where everyone that was having an
266
00:07:40,960 –> 00:07:45,120
affair would go to hang out with their mistress until
267
00:07:45,120 –> 00:07:47,280
they redesigned it and opened it up and then nobody
268
00:07:47,280 –> 00:07:48,160
showed up anymore.
269
00:07:48,160 –> 00:07:50,800
So they lost like all of their infidelity business.
270
00:07:53,120 –> 00:07:54,400
What do you say?
271
00:07:54,800 –> 00:07:56,240
People were asking for silverware?
272
00:07:56,400 –> 00:07:57,120
Yes, they are.
273
00:07:57,520 –> 00:07:58,560
But that’s Jimmy’s fork?
274
00:07:59,200 –> 00:07:59,400
Yes.
275
00:07:59,400 –> 00:08:00,440
It’s so stupid.
276
00:08:01,600 –> 00:08:04,760
Yeah, there’s some people probably think there’s DNA.
277
00:08:04,760 –> 00:08:05,920
Imagine that.
278
00:08:06,000 –> 00:08:08,240
Bartender also told me that people come in,
279
00:08:08,240 –> 00:08:09,040
like the tourists,
280
00:08:09,040 –> 00:08:12,280
with fanny packs that have like Jimmy Hoffa’s name
281
00:08:12,280 –> 00:08:13,120
and picture on them.
282
00:08:14,320 –> 00:08:14,520
J.
283
00:08:14,520 –> 00:08:15,280
Ruben Appleman,
284
00:08:16,560 –> 00:08:19,440
author of the Kill Jar and the newest one,
285
00:08:19,440 –> 00:08:20,720
While Idaho Slept,
286
00:08:20,720 –> 00:08:20,920
right?
287
00:08:20,920 –> 00:08:22,880
The murder of the four college students.
288
00:08:24,000 –> 00:08:25,360
That dude just pled guilty,
289
00:08:25,360 –> 00:08:25,680
didn’t he,
290
00:08:25,680 –> 00:08:25,880
Mark?
291
00:08:26,320 –> 00:08:27,760
Yeah, Brian Kohlberger.
292
00:08:28,560 –> 00:08:29,920
Kind of a surprise plea,
293
00:08:29,920 –> 00:08:30,560
I thought.
294
00:08:30,720 –> 00:08:31,840
I don’t know what you think,
295
00:08:32,400 –> 00:08:32,680
Jason.
296
00:08:32,800 –> 00:08:33,640
He wrote the fucking book.
297
00:08:33,640 –> 00:08:34,160
What do you think?
298
00:08:34,720 –> 00:08:36,480
Well, I haven’t read it because you didn’t count me.
299
00:08:39,440 –> 00:08:42,160
I can get you a bunch now because Patterson’s got a
300
00:08:42,160 –> 00:08:42,880
new book coming out.
301
00:08:42,880 –> 00:08:44,840
It’d probably fucking be the only thing you see now
302
00:08:44,840 –> 00:08:45,320
about that case.
303
00:08:45,320 –> 00:08:46,800
So I probably have boxes in my book.
304
00:08:46,840 –> 00:08:47,480
Who’s Patterson?
305
00:08:48,040 –> 00:08:48,640
Patterson.
306
00:08:48,640 –> 00:08:49,200
I don’t know.
307
00:08:49,520 –> 00:08:50,200
James Patterson.
308
00:08:50,400 –> 00:08:51,040
James Patterson,
309
00:08:51,040 –> 00:08:52,440
the guy who’s got 250 books.
310
00:08:52,440 –> 00:08:53,680
Nobody in the right fucking,
311
00:08:53,920 –> 00:08:54,160
you know,
312
00:08:54,240 –> 00:08:55,120
it would take a mega,
313
00:08:55,120 –> 00:08:58,720
mega, mega fucking computer to bust out 250 good books
314
00:08:58,720 –> 00:08:59,640
by itself.
315
00:08:59,840 –> 00:09:01,560
James Patterson doesn’t write his books anymore.
316
00:09:01,560 –> 00:09:02,480
Let’s get that straight.
317
00:09:03,040 –> 00:09:04,960
Have you ever seen,
318
00:09:04,960 –> 00:09:06,720
okay, so you live in Idaho now.
319
00:09:06,720 –> 00:09:07,640
You’re from Oakland County.
320
00:09:07,640 –> 00:09:08,680
Where’d you grow up in Southfield?
321
00:09:08,680 –> 00:09:09,440
I grew up in Southfield.
322
00:09:09,440 –> 00:09:09,720
Right.
323
00:09:09,760 –> 00:09:10,760
Okay, you live in Idaho now.
324
00:09:10,760 –> 00:09:12,320
You’ve been for the last quarter century.
325
00:09:12,600 –> 00:09:12,720
Yeah.
326
00:09:13,280 –> 00:09:16,440
So did you see this Patterson guy wandering around
327
00:09:16,440 –> 00:09:17,000
doing the work?
328
00:09:17,120 –> 00:09:21,000
Because I cover Ground Zero for a whole fucking year,
329
00:09:21,000 –> 00:09:21,440
right?
330
00:09:21,680 –> 00:09:22,560
The only guy.
331
00:09:23,240 –> 00:09:24,000
Only guy there,
332
00:09:24,000 –> 00:09:24,760
undercover,
333
00:09:24,760 –> 00:09:26,880
all sudden all these books,
334
00:09:26,880 –> 00:09:27,840
a year at Ground Zero.
335
00:09:27,840 –> 00:09:29,680
I’m like, I never fucking saw you there.
336
00:09:30,240 –> 00:09:31,920
I would know if you were there.
337
00:09:32,640 –> 00:09:33,560
Yeah, In fact,
338
00:09:33,560 –> 00:09:37,040
I’m giving Patterson too much audio time right now.
339
00:09:37,680 –> 00:09:38,880
While Idaho slept.
340
00:09:38,960 –> 00:09:40,320
His name is the book I wrote.
341
00:09:40,320 –> 00:09:41,120
John Peterman.
342
00:09:41,120 –> 00:09:41,840
OK, look for that.
343
00:09:42,800 –> 00:09:43,640
While Idaho slept.
344
00:09:43,640 –> 00:09:44,400
Yeah, I wrote that book.
345
00:09:44,400 –> 00:09:45,840
The first book that came out about.
346
00:09:47,040 –> 00:09:47,520
the Idaho,
347
00:09:47,760 –> 00:09:48,560
Idaho murders.
348
00:09:48,560 –> 00:09:49,960
And I want to say another thing about that.
349
00:09:49,960 –> 00:09:50,960
The second book that came out,
350
00:09:51,120 –> 00:09:52,560
that motherfucker wasn’t there either.
351
00:09:53,280 –> 00:09:55,600
And he can’t pronounce the victim’s family’s names
352
00:09:55,600 –> 00:09:57,120
right and shit like that when he’s doing,
353
00:09:57,280 –> 00:09:57,760
you know,
354
00:09:57,840 –> 00:09:58,480
spots.
355
00:09:58,880 –> 00:10:00,720
So I will just say this.
356
00:10:02,640 –> 00:10:05,760
I wrote what I hope was an authentic,
357
00:10:06,160 –> 00:10:07,120
sensitive,
358
00:10:08,000 –> 00:10:09,040
smart book.
359
00:10:09,360 –> 00:10:11,280
In the limited time that I had to write it,
360
00:10:11,280 –> 00:10:13,280
HarperCollins gave me a four-month deadline to bust
361
00:10:13,280 –> 00:10:14,160
out the first draft.
362
00:10:14,400 –> 00:10:16,720
I was on the ground every fucking day talking to those
363
00:10:16,720 –> 00:10:20,520
people, trying to talk to the family members of the
364
00:10:20,520 –> 00:10:23,760
victims, which is very difficult in the immediate
365
00:10:23,760 –> 00:10:25,920
aftermath of those horrific murders,
366
00:10:26,120 –> 00:10:27,600
trying to get people on the phone to talk to you,
367
00:10:27,600 –> 00:10:27,760
you know,
368
00:10:27,760 –> 00:10:28,720
they don’t give a fuck about you.
369
00:10:28,720 –> 00:10:31,200
I always say I’m trespassing and other people’s suffering.
370
00:10:31,200 –> 00:10:32,520
And that’s a hard thing to do.
371
00:10:32,600 –> 00:10:35,600
do, as other people know who have written these kinds
372
00:10:35,600 –> 00:10:37,200
of investigative books of misery.
373
00:10:37,440 –> 00:10:38,320
Yeah, it’s tough.
374
00:10:39,040 –> 00:10:42,000
But I did the best I could with that story.
375
00:10:42,000 –> 00:10:43,120
In answer to your question,
376
00:10:43,120 –> 00:10:43,920
I think it was like,
377
00:10:44,000 –> 00:10:45,440
do you know something about that case?
378
00:10:45,760 –> 00:10:46,120
Yeah.
379
00:10:46,320 –> 00:10:48,400
And what I think it all was about the plea.
380
00:10:48,720 –> 00:10:49,000
Yeah.
381
00:10:49,280 –> 00:10:51,920
I did not expect him to plea,
382
00:10:52,160 –> 00:10:55,920
but I certainly expected that he would get convicted
383
00:10:55,920 –> 00:10:57,920
of those murders because if you take any person of
384
00:10:57,920 –> 00:11:00,520
color in this country and you put the same evidence
385
00:11:00,520 –> 00:11:01,440
on those people,
386
00:11:02,000 –> 00:11:02,520
they’re going away
387
00:11:02,600 –> 00:11:03,840
they would have already been locked away.
388
00:11:04,000 –> 00:11:05,240
The fact is he was,
389
00:11:05,240 –> 00:11:07,720
whether you think he’s autistically weird or whatever
390
00:11:07,720 –> 00:11:08,880
you call him in,
391
00:11:08,880 –> 00:11:09,120
you know,
392
00:11:09,120 –> 00:11:11,200
that’s the slander online and shit,
393
00:11:11,400 –> 00:11:14,200
whether you think he’s a fucking maniacal,
394
00:11:14,200 –> 00:11:14,720
whatever,
395
00:11:14,720 –> 00:11:16,640
whether you think he’s creepy or whatever it is.
396
00:11:16,800 –> 00:11:17,760
If you just look at,
397
00:11:17,760 –> 00:11:19,440
if you just look at Brian Kohberger,
398
00:11:19,680 –> 00:11:23,120
he’s a relatively handsome white dude who had all
399
00:11:23,120 –> 00:11:24,160
the media on him.
400
00:11:24,320 –> 00:11:27,200
So the defense had all the time in the world to draw
401
00:11:27,200 –> 00:11:28,320
this fucking thing out.
402
00:11:28,400 –> 00:11:29,680
They had all the resources.
403
00:11:29,680 –> 00:11:31,520
Everybody was giving money because they had to do it
404
00:11:31,520 –> 00:11:32,320
right because
405
00:11:32,600 –> 00:11:33,840
everybody was looking at this case.
406
00:11:33,920 –> 00:11:35,440
So they had to do everything right,
407
00:11:35,520 –> 00:11:37,360
which means they had all the resources in the fucking
408
00:11:37,360 –> 00:11:37,680
world.
409
00:11:38,160 –> 00:11:40,960
And any other person of color,
410
00:11:41,040 –> 00:11:42,640
any poor person,
411
00:11:42,800 –> 00:11:44,720
any even middle-class person,
412
00:11:44,960 –> 00:11:46,400
this shit would have already been a lot.
413
00:11:46,400 –> 00:11:47,440
Like he would have gone away.
414
00:11:47,440 –> 00:11:48,160
They had DNA,
415
00:11:48,160 –> 00:11:51,440
they had forensic sell shit.
416
00:11:52,160 –> 00:11:54,720
They had all kinds of his online history.
417
00:11:54,880 –> 00:11:56,120
They had, I mean,
418
00:11:56,160 –> 00:11:57,080
just so much shit.
419
00:11:57,080 –> 00:11:57,760
I get you.
420
00:11:57,920 –> 00:11:59,200
They would have put anybody away,
421
00:11:59,200 –> 00:12:00,320
but this case was big,
422
00:12:00,400 –> 00:12:01,360
so it took a while.
423
00:12:01,600 –> 00:12:02,520
I did not expect the police
424
00:12:02,640 –> 00:12:04,760
But I certainly expected he’d get locked up.
425
00:12:04,960 –> 00:12:05,480
In the end,
426
00:12:05,560 –> 00:12:06,120
stay locked up.
427
00:12:06,120 –> 00:12:08,160
They had an eyewitness of sorts,
428
00:12:08,160 –> 00:12:09,360
the DoorDash driver.
429
00:12:09,360 –> 00:12:09,720
Was that a,
430
00:12:09,840 –> 00:12:12,480
that must have been a surprise for the defense team,
431
00:12:12,480 –> 00:12:12,960
I thought.
432
00:12:13,280 –> 00:12:15,920
Yeah, What a DoorDash driver witnessed it while he
433
00:12:15,920 –> 00:12:18,040
snuck in the house and slashed four people to death.
434
00:12:18,040 –> 00:12:20,400
Saw him in the car at like 3 A.m.
435
00:12:20,400 –> 00:12:21,200
They saw him in.
436
00:12:21,200 –> 00:12:22,000
Time out, time out,
437
00:12:22,000 –> 00:12:22,360
time out,
438
00:12:22,360 –> 00:12:22,560
time out.
439
00:12:22,840 –> 00:12:23,120
Okay, wait,
440
00:12:23,120 –> 00:12:24,960
because this was just for me,
441
00:12:24,960 –> 00:12:26,360
like World News Tonight.
442
00:12:26,360 –> 00:12:27,600
Oh, whoa, jeez,
443
00:12:27,600 –> 00:12:28,320
wow, man.
444
00:12:28,320 –> 00:12:29,440
Oh, okay, they got him.
445
00:12:31,320 –> 00:12:33,920
So 4 people are like stabbed to death,
446
00:12:33,920 –> 00:12:34,240
right?
447
00:12:34,640 –> 00:12:35,520
In their sleep.
448
00:12:38,000 –> 00:12:38,920
At 3 in the morning.
449
00:12:39,600 –> 00:12:40,480
In their sleep-ish,
450
00:12:40,480 –> 00:12:41,480
but we can talk about that.
451
00:12:41,480 –> 00:12:42,960
So what’s that fucking DoorDash?
452
00:12:43,000 –> 00:12:45,000
Who called the DoorDash driver at 3 in the morning
453
00:12:45,000 –> 00:12:45,560
in their sleep?
454
00:12:45,560 –> 00:12:46,480
College Town.
455
00:12:46,720 –> 00:12:47,600
Four in the morning,
456
00:12:47,600 –> 00:12:47,880
actually.
457
00:12:47,920 –> 00:12:49,520
So there were more than four people living in that
458
00:12:49,520 –> 00:12:50,240
house, probably.
459
00:12:50,880 –> 00:12:51,440
Yeah, brother.
460
00:12:51,440 –> 00:12:54,000
Listen, I’ll tell you briefly how this DoorDash thing
461
00:12:54,000 –> 00:12:54,320
went down.
462
00:12:54,520 –> 00:12:56,240
It’s 4 in the morning.
463
00:12:56,240 –> 00:12:57,520
Everybody’s come home from drinking.
464
00:12:57,520 –> 00:12:58,680
They don’t get home until 2,
465
00:12:58,680 –> 00:12:59,360
around 2,
466
00:12:59,360 –> 00:12:59,760
rough, you know,
467
00:12:59,760 –> 00:13:00,800
1 50, 2 o’clock.
468
00:13:01,920 –> 00:13:03,520
You know, some of them go to sleep and some of them
469
00:13:03,520 –> 00:13:04,080
are still up.
470
00:13:04,080 –> 00:13:06,240
One of them was on TikTok for a couple hours and she
471
00:13:06,240 –> 00:13:07,360
ordered DoorDash.
472
00:13:07,840 –> 00:13:10,160
And I’m giving you broad strokes.
473
00:13:10,160 –> 00:13:11,920
Yeah, thanks for that.
474
00:13:11,920 –> 00:13:12,800
She ordered some DoorDash.
475
00:13:12,800 –> 00:13:16,240
The DoorDash driver showed up and allegedly recently,
476
00:13:16,640 –> 00:13:18,240
during being pulled over,
477
00:13:18,720 –> 00:13:20,920
in a drunk driving incident,
478
00:13:20,920 –> 00:13:23,560
we got to understand she was so she was inebriated
479
00:13:23,560 –> 00:13:25,920
when she’s told a police officer,
480
00:13:25,920 –> 00:13:28,360
hey, I got to be over whatever because they’re going
481
00:13:28,360 –> 00:13:32,280
to need me for this court thing because I saw Brian
482
00:13:32,280 –> 00:13:34,920
Kohberger sitting in the car outside the house or
483
00:13:34,920 –> 00:13:35,280
whatever.
484
00:13:35,280 –> 00:13:35,520
Okay.
485
00:13:35,520 –> 00:13:37,440
So she says this after a DUI poll.
486
00:13:37,680 –> 00:13:39,280
So first of all,
487
00:13:40,080 –> 00:13:42,520
that probably weighs heavily on the defense’s mind
488
00:13:42,520 –> 00:13:42,880
going, man,
489
00:13:42,880 –> 00:13:43,840
if there’s an eyewitness,
490
00:13:43,840 –> 00:13:45,640
now they got one of the things that they were missing.
491
00:13:45,640 –> 00:13:46,440
They didn’t have the weapon.
492
00:13:46,440 –> 00:13:47,360
They didn’t have an eyewitness.
493
00:13:47,800 –> 00:13:49,440
All this other shit could be poked through a little
494
00:13:49,440 –> 00:13:49,680
bit.
495
00:13:49,840 –> 00:13:51,800
The DNA, they might have been able to throw out,
496
00:13:51,800 –> 00:13:53,600
because you got everybody looking at this case.
497
00:13:53,840 –> 00:13:55,840
The DNA, they might have been able to throw out because
498
00:13:56,240 –> 00:13:57,760
they matched it illegally.
499
00:13:57,920 –> 00:14:00,400
It’d be the first case in the history of the United
500
00:14:00,400 –> 00:14:02,560
States when they matched,
501
00:14:02,560 –> 00:14:06,160
they found the perpetrator by utilizing 23andMe,
502
00:14:06,160 –> 00:14:07,440
or I’m talking,
503
00:14:07,440 –> 00:14:08,480
it’s not 23andMe,
504
00:14:08,640 –> 00:14:10,480
but I’m saying that type of service.
505
00:14:11,720 –> 00:14:12,480
Previously,
506
00:14:12,720 –> 00:14:15,760
they already had a perpetrator when they used 23andMe
507
00:14:15,760 –> 00:14:16,480
type things,
508
00:14:16,640 –> 00:14:17,920
and they would look for that perp.
509
00:14:17,920 –> 00:14:18,480
They already said,
510
00:14:18,480 –> 00:14:19,680
okay, we’re going to take his DNA.
511
00:14:19,680 –> 00:14:20,560
We already know it’s him.
512
00:14:20,800 –> 00:14:21,280
This time,
513
00:14:21,280 –> 00:14:24,000
they just took some fucking DNA and shot it through
514
00:14:24,000 –> 00:14:24,880
one of these things.
515
00:14:24,960 –> 00:14:27,560
And it’s currently illegal to do that because the people
516
00:14:27,560 –> 00:14:31,200
who submit their DNA to those sites don’t give consent
517
00:14:31,200 –> 00:14:32,480
to have it matched like this.
518
00:14:33,320 –> 00:14:35,120
Okay, it’s a long story about that.
519
00:14:35,120 –> 00:14:36,000
But the point is,
520
00:14:36,320 –> 00:14:37,240
theoretically,
521
00:14:37,240 –> 00:14:39,520
if you take 12 jurors who don’t know shit about this
522
00:14:39,520 –> 00:14:41,680
case and you just put them in a room and you tell
523
00:14:41,680 –> 00:14:42,560
them that’s illegal,
524
00:14:42,640 –> 00:14:44,400
they could have that,
525
00:14:44,400 –> 00:14:44,920
they could say,
526
00:14:45,040 –> 00:14:46,040
we can’t count that.
527
00:14:46,760 –> 00:14:47,840
The cell phone forensics,
528
00:14:47,840 –> 00:14:49,720
the same forensics that put him at the scene,
529
00:14:49,960 –> 00:14:52,360
they only put him within an area of the scene.
530
00:14:52,600 –> 00:14:53,680
Let’s say 200 yards,
531
00:14:53,680 –> 00:14:54,600
let’s say 400 yards.
532
00:14:54,600 –> 00:14:55,720
They don’t put him in the house.
533
00:14:57,320 –> 00:14:58,920
This DoorDash driver,
534
00:14:58,920 –> 00:15:01,960
I agree with you that it’s that it’s a sort of volatile
535
00:15:01,960 –> 00:15:02,680
piece of evidence.
536
00:15:02,840 –> 00:15:03,800
She saw him there,
537
00:15:03,880 –> 00:15:05,640
but she did not see him in the house.
538
00:15:05,640 –> 00:15:07,000
She saw him outside the house.
539
00:15:07,160 –> 00:15:09,640
What I’m saying is that if you take a jury that doesn’t
540
00:15:09,640 –> 00:15:11,960
know shit and you throw millions of dollars in defense
541
00:15:11,960 –> 00:15:13,240
funds toward toward a team,
542
00:15:13,240 –> 00:15:13,960
just like the O.J.
543
00:15:13,960 –> 00:15:16,680
shit, and bore him and confuse him,
544
00:15:16,760 –> 00:15:17,560
and just like the O.J.
545
00:15:17,560 –> 00:15:17,760
shit.
546
00:15:17,760 –> 00:15:19,160
You always got an asshole in that,
547
00:15:19,160 –> 00:15:19,440
you know,
548
00:15:19,720 –> 00:15:20,200
in that jury.
549
00:15:20,200 –> 00:15:22,840
Yeah, and you could fuck this whole case up.
550
00:15:22,840 –> 00:15:25,840
So the plea made sense from a prosecution standpoint
551
00:15:25,840 –> 00:15:26,520
to offer it.
552
00:15:27,320 –> 00:15:30,400
And it probably made sense from the defense side to
553
00:15:30,400 –> 00:15:33,440
take it because the chances of all that shit getting
554
00:15:33,440 –> 00:15:34,280
thrown out are slim.
555
00:15:34,520 –> 00:15:34,800
Yeah.
556
00:15:35,000 –> 00:15:37,080
So that’s my take.
557
00:15:37,080 –> 00:15:37,640
That’s my hot take.
558
00:15:37,640 –> 00:15:38,760
Did he have legs like that?
559
00:15:40,200 –> 00:15:40,680
I got to say,
560
00:15:40,680 –> 00:15:42,400
I don’t have hair on my legs,
561
00:15:42,400 –> 00:15:42,600
bro.
562
00:15:42,720 –> 00:15:43,240
Stabber.
563
00:15:44,040 –> 00:15:45,480
Why do you fucking kill those people?
564
00:15:45,480 –> 00:15:47,000
Yeah, that’s the big question motive.
565
00:15:47,600 –> 00:15:49,880
a lot of people think that he was obsessed with Maddie
566
00:15:49,880 –> 00:15:50,360
Mogan.
567
00:15:50,520 –> 00:15:51,640
If you look at the four,
568
00:15:51,720 –> 00:15:53,200
one of the victims,
569
00:15:53,240 –> 00:15:54,520
the four kids that were killed,
570
00:15:55,040 –> 00:15:59,160
one of them is your like stereotypical gorgeous blonde
571
00:15:59,160 –> 00:16:01,080
sort of thing that I’m saying stereotype,
572
00:16:01,080 –> 00:16:02,760
I’m not saying taste or whatever.
573
00:16:02,760 –> 00:16:03,360
It’s just like,
574
00:16:03,360 –> 00:16:03,960
she’s the one,
575
00:16:04,760 –> 00:16:05,160
she’s the,
576
00:16:05,880 –> 00:16:06,360
she’s the,
577
00:16:06,360 –> 00:16:06,920
well, no,
578
00:16:06,920 –> 00:16:07,400
for real though,
579
00:16:07,400 –> 00:16:07,960
like, I don’t know,
580
00:16:07,960 –> 00:16:08,280
man.
581
00:16:08,440 –> 00:16:10,440
I mean, Was she hot or not?
582
00:16:10,920 –> 00:16:11,400
Yes.
583
00:16:11,560 –> 00:16:11,840
Okay.
584
00:16:11,960 –> 00:16:12,920
They were all beautiful.
585
00:16:13,720 –> 00:16:15,000
They’re all beautiful white people.
586
00:16:15,000 –> 00:16:16,080
You guys are making me uncomfortable.
587
00:16:16,080 –> 00:16:17,560
White people can’t be beautiful anymore.
588
00:16:17,800 –> 00:16:18,960
You guys are making me uncomfortable,
589
00:16:18,960 –> 00:16:19,160
man.
590
00:16:20,520 –> 00:16:22,600
Listen, you’re beautiful too,
591
00:16:22,720 –> 00:16:23,640
in a certain way.
592
00:16:23,640 –> 00:16:25,960
There’s other things about Maddie is what I’m saying.
593
00:16:25,960 –> 00:16:29,320
It’s been rumoured and there were screenshots that
594
00:16:29,320 –> 00:16:31,000
he that suggest that he,
595
00:16:31,000 –> 00:16:32,680
unless they were fake screenshots,
596
00:16:33,240 –> 00:16:33,960
that he
597
00:16:34,680 –> 00:16:36,920
Instagram messaged Maddie multiple times,
598
00:16:36,920 –> 00:16:37,720
like, hey,
599
00:16:38,000 –> 00:16:39,160
and she never responded.
600
00:16:39,320 –> 00:16:41,240
If you ask me why he killed these people.
601
00:16:41,240 –> 00:16:42,120
Wait, did she know him?
602
00:16:42,120 –> 00:16:42,480
No.
603
00:16:42,840 –> 00:16:48,000
Okay, so a dude you don’t know is messaging you and
604
00:16:48,000 –> 00:16:48,440
you don’t.
605
00:16:48,480 –> 00:16:49,480
Whoa, man,
606
00:16:49,960 –> 00:16:50,960
things are getting bad.
607
00:16:52,840 –> 00:16:53,360
Not like, hey,
608
00:16:53,360 –> 00:16:55,320
I like your art or hey,
609
00:16:55,480 –> 00:16:56,680
I saw you at the shop.
610
00:16:56,680 –> 00:16:57,480
You were cool.
611
00:16:57,480 –> 00:16:58,280
Nothing just hey,
612
00:16:58,440 –> 00:16:58,640
right?
613
00:16:58,640 –> 00:16:59,800
So of course they’re not going to answer.
614
00:16:59,800 –> 00:17:02,840
But that’s a big reason this whole case blew up nationally
615
00:17:02,840 –> 00:17:05,720
and got so much attention is because they’re all very
616
00:17:05,720 –> 00:17:06,280
attractive.
617
00:17:06,280 –> 00:17:07,880
It’s in the heartland of America.
618
00:17:08,000 –> 00:17:08,600
And you know what?
619
00:17:08,600 –> 00:17:12,520
They posted every single thing they did on social media.
620
00:17:12,760 –> 00:17:15,000
So there was a lot of video and footage to be shown.
621
00:17:15,000 –> 00:17:15,880
And I got to say,
622
00:17:16,280 –> 00:17:17,480
I fall into that trap.
623
00:17:17,640 –> 00:17:20,200
I will consume that and consume that.
624
00:17:20,680 –> 00:17:22,720
But what the one thing that drove me
625
00:17:22,800 –> 00:17:26,680
nuts about it is the Reddit forums and people,
626
00:17:27,560 –> 00:17:30,120
pointing the finger at a professor who that person
627
00:17:30,120 –> 00:17:32,080
did it, or they saw somebody in the food truck video
628
00:17:32,080 –> 00:17:33,080
and that person did it.
629
00:17:33,560 –> 00:17:35,160
And it kind of drove me nuts because I’m like,
630
00:17:35,320 –> 00:17:38,360
I think the police do a pretty good job without all
631
00:17:38,360 –> 00:17:39,160
this stuff in the way.
632
00:17:39,160 –> 00:17:40,280
Does that affect
633
00:17:43,720 –> 00:17:44,520
social media.
634
00:17:44,520 –> 00:17:45,800
Everybody’s got a clue.
635
00:17:45,800 –> 00:17:47,160
The police have to run it down.
636
00:17:47,240 –> 00:17:48,160
Yeah, I understand.
637
00:17:48,160 –> 00:17:48,600
I understand.
638
00:17:48,600 –> 00:17:51,080
In fact, that was the first notion I had of writing
639
00:17:51,080 –> 00:17:53,200
this book was I wanted to write a book that focused
640
00:17:53,200 –> 00:17:55,760
solely on how the social media mob affects current
641
00:17:55,760 –> 00:17:57,080
day police investigations.
642
00:17:57,240 –> 00:17:58,520
I went up there looking around.
643
00:17:58,600 –> 00:17:59,960
I ran into Brian Enton from
644
00:18:00,800 –> 00:18:02,040
fucking news nation or whatever.
645
00:18:02,360 –> 00:18:04,240
I didn’t know anything about you media guys.
646
00:18:04,240 –> 00:18:04,680
I was like,
647
00:18:04,680 –> 00:18:06,840
I just started telling them what I was doing up there.
648
00:18:06,920 –> 00:18:07,600
That’s A no-no,
649
00:18:07,600 –> 00:18:08,000
apparently,
650
00:18:08,000 –> 00:18:09,080
because then they steal that shit.
651
00:18:09,400 –> 00:18:11,240
That very night I was talking to Brian Enton on the
652
00:18:11,240 –> 00:18:11,720
ground.
653
00:18:11,960 –> 00:18:15,640
He starts broadcasting shit about what I’m really interested
654
00:18:15,640 –> 00:18:18,600
in is the social media mob and how they affect investigations.
655
00:18:18,680 –> 00:18:19,480
I was like,
656
00:18:19,480 –> 00:18:21,600
I just told that guy like 8 hours earlier,
657
00:18:21,600 –> 00:18:23,000
I was writing a book about that shit.
658
00:18:23,160 –> 00:18:24,720
So we had to pivot and that kind of,
659
00:18:24,720 –> 00:18:27,000
and then the New York Times wrote a big thing.
660
00:18:27,160 –> 00:18:29,320
The New York Times published a big thing saying,
661
00:18:29,720 –> 00:18:30,720
we broke this story
662
00:18:30,880 –> 00:18:34,760
of Brian Kohberger’s Tapitoc post and how he has visual
663
00:18:34,760 –> 00:18:38,600
snow and how he suffers from isolation and stuff because
664
00:18:38,600 –> 00:18:40,640
he was posting online as a teenager about this shit.
665
00:18:40,640 –> 00:18:41,040
And they’re like,
666
00:18:41,040 –> 00:18:42,360
we broke this story.
667
00:18:42,600 –> 00:18:43,840
And there’s all this news.
668
00:18:43,840 –> 00:18:44,680
They didn’t break that shit.
669
00:18:44,680 –> 00:18:47,400
I saw that shit on Reddit 3 weeks before the New York
670
00:18:47,400 –> 00:18:48,120
Times did.
671
00:18:48,280 –> 00:18:50,040
And then they came out with this story.
672
00:18:50,200 –> 00:18:51,440
But there is meat there,
673
00:18:51,440 –> 00:18:55,800
which is that the social media mob in this case went
674
00:18:55,880 –> 00:19:00,720
crazy and in some ways helped the investigation.
675
00:19:00,800 –> 00:19:01,480
That’s what I would think.
676
00:19:01,560 –> 00:19:02,680
In some ways helped it.
677
00:19:02,840 –> 00:19:05,240
I’m a firm believer in crowdsourcing investigations.
678
00:19:05,240 –> 00:19:05,640
Like, hey,
679
00:19:05,640 –> 00:19:07,360
let’s help everybody help me find my dog.
680
00:19:07,360 –> 00:19:08,280
That’s as old as the hills.
681
00:19:08,280 –> 00:19:09,560
Like, here’s the tip line call.
682
00:19:09,800 –> 00:19:11,520
Yeah, and poster of your dog.
683
00:19:11,520 –> 00:19:12,520
That’s crowdsourcing.
684
00:19:12,840 –> 00:19:13,680
Help me find my dog.
685
00:19:13,680 –> 00:19:14,680
Everybody look for my dog.
686
00:19:16,520 –> 00:19:17,560
And in this case,
687
00:19:17,640 –> 00:19:22,440
it helped the police gather the data they needed
688
00:19:23,640 –> 00:19:24,640
ring cam footage,
689
00:19:25,080 –> 00:19:26,040
things like that.
690
00:19:26,040 –> 00:19:26,520
People were,
691
00:19:26,520 –> 00:19:30,120
they had the FBI set up a link or whatever the fuck
692
00:19:30,120 –> 00:19:32,120
to put your footage here or whatever,
693
00:19:32,120 –> 00:19:34,960
if you got any video evidence or audio evidence or
694
00:19:34,960 –> 00:19:35,280
whatever.
695
00:19:35,480 –> 00:19:36,600
But at the same time,
696
00:19:36,760 –> 00:19:39,000
they were inundated with that shit as well.
697
00:19:39,000 –> 00:19:40,920
So the few things they got from that,
698
00:19:41,400 –> 00:19:43,160
evidentiary-wise or whatever,
699
00:19:43,800 –> 00:19:45,480
was buried in just mounds of shit.
700
00:19:45,480 –> 00:19:48,200
They had a whole team of FBI people that had to sort
701
00:19:48,200 –> 00:19:48,840
through this shit,
702
00:19:49,080 –> 00:19:50,920
and that’s a difficult process as well.
703
00:19:50,920 –> 00:19:52,600
But at the end of the day,
704
00:19:52,960 –> 00:19:53,520
what the
705
00:19:53,600 –> 00:19:56,040
social media mob did was sort of twofold.
706
00:19:56,520 –> 00:19:57,560
It’s a blessing and a curse.
707
00:19:57,960 –> 00:19:59,680
They kept the story alive.
708
00:19:59,680 –> 00:20:01,080
This is why Steve Gonzalves,
709
00:20:01,080 –> 00:20:01,840
Kaylee Gonzalves,
710
00:20:01,840 –> 00:20:02,520
one of the victims,
711
00:20:02,520 –> 00:20:04,680
her father kept going on Fox News,
712
00:20:04,680 –> 00:20:05,480
going on CNN,
713
00:20:05,480 –> 00:20:05,760
going up,
714
00:20:05,960 –> 00:20:07,240
going on whoever would have him,
715
00:20:07,880 –> 00:20:09,400
primarily Fox and News Nation,
716
00:20:11,000 –> 00:20:12,120
and talking,
717
00:20:12,120 –> 00:20:14,120
talking, talking to keep the eyes on the case.
718
00:20:14,520 –> 00:20:16,440
I think he rightly understood that the more media on
719
00:20:16,440 –> 00:20:16,840
the case,
720
00:20:16,840 –> 00:20:17,960
the more they had to do it right,
721
00:20:17,960 –> 00:20:20,200
the more they had to feel this pressure like,
722
00:20:20,200 –> 00:20:21,080
fuck, we’re losing,
723
00:20:21,840 –> 00:20:22,840
and then find this guy,
724
00:20:22,840 –> 00:20:23,120
right?
725
00:20:23,160 –> 00:20:23,480
Okay.
726
00:20:23,640 –> 00:20:24,520
At the same time,
727
00:20:24,760 –> 00:20:25,360
like you mentioned,
728
00:20:25,360 –> 00:20:25,960
the professor,
729
00:20:25,960 –> 00:20:27,800
Rebecca, Rebecca,
730
00:20:27,960 –> 00:20:33,240
she’s she was fucking demolished online.
731
00:20:33,240 –> 00:20:37,640
She was she was she was dog piled on by people who
732
00:20:38,120 –> 00:20:41,520
claimed that she was having an affair with one of
733
00:20:41,520 –> 00:20:42,360
the students.
734
00:20:42,680 –> 00:20:45,040
This led to some sort of love triangle and all this
735
00:20:45,040 –> 00:20:45,160
shit.
736
00:20:45,160 –> 00:20:46,360
But what this came from,
737
00:20:47,000 –> 00:20:47,360
but what?
738
00:20:47,800 –> 00:20:48,800
No, but here’s the thing.
739
00:20:48,800 –> 00:20:51,000
What this came from was this TikToker,
740
00:20:51,160 –> 00:20:51,800
this fucking,
741
00:20:52,760 –> 00:20:53,520
what do you call those people?
742
00:20:53,600 –> 00:20:56,040
people who can see the future or read minds or see.
743
00:20:56,440 –> 00:20:58,680
Yeah, this psychic TikToker,
744
00:20:58,680 –> 00:20:59,480
bullshitter,
745
00:20:59,800 –> 00:21:03,920
said, I see that this was this professor and
746
00:21:05,680 –> 00:21:08,440
And I think she did it because of this love triangle
747
00:21:08,440 –> 00:21:09,320
thing and whatever.
748
00:21:09,480 –> 00:21:10,040
All of a sudden,
749
00:21:10,040 –> 00:21:12,440
it’s Thanksgiving weekend and this professor’s getting
750
00:21:12,440 –> 00:21:15,000
death threats from Aryan Nation people in northern
751
00:21:15,000 –> 00:21:15,640
Idaho and shit,
752
00:21:15,920 –> 00:21:18,680
because the TikToker said she was queer because she
753
00:21:18,680 –> 00:21:20,600
happens to teach a gender class.
754
00:21:20,960 –> 00:21:21,240
Okay, wait,
755
00:21:21,280 –> 00:21:23,480
what’s the name of this clairvoyant on TikTok?
756
00:21:24,440 –> 00:21:25,000
I don’t know.
757
00:21:25,000 –> 00:21:27,680
I think she might have dropped off because she’s facing
758
00:21:27,680 –> 00:21:28,680
a number of losses.
759
00:21:28,800 –> 00:21:31,320
Well, I was going to have my assistant look up that
760
00:21:31,320 –> 00:21:32,280
account, but.
761
00:21:32,840 –> 00:21:34,160
Yeah, I don’t remember her name,
762
00:21:34,160 –> 00:21:35,080
man, to be honest.
763
00:21:36,120 –> 00:21:37,800
I know that she’s a little crazy.
764
00:21:38,040 –> 00:21:40,040
I talked to Rebecca multiple times,
765
00:21:40,160 –> 00:21:41,480
a couple hours at a time.
766
00:21:41,640 –> 00:21:43,640
She was crying for half the conversations.
767
00:21:43,640 –> 00:21:44,360
Is she suing?
768
00:21:44,760 –> 00:21:45,640
Yeah, she’s suing.
769
00:21:45,640 –> 00:21:47,000
In fact, that’s clairvoyant.
770
00:21:47,880 –> 00:21:49,000
She’s suing the clairvoyant.
771
00:21:49,000 –> 00:21:51,080
The clairvoyant is the clairvoyant didn’t see that
772
00:21:51,080 –> 00:21:51,440
coming.
773
00:21:51,640 –> 00:21:54,040
The clairvoyant counter sued for some shit.
774
00:21:54,360 –> 00:21:55,240
And then, I mean,
775
00:21:55,240 –> 00:21:56,120
it was insane.
776
00:21:56,200 –> 00:21:57,400
It was fucking insane.
777
00:21:57,400 –> 00:22:01,120
And the fact is absolutely 000 proof.
778
00:22:01,560 –> 00:22:05,320
The so-called clairvoyant was doing this shit for clout
779
00:22:05,320 –> 00:22:08,680
and clicks and whatever and ruining somebody’s life.
780
00:22:08,880 –> 00:22:10,160
Like something’s going to have,
781
00:22:10,200 –> 00:22:11,160
it has to happen,
782
00:22:11,160 –> 00:22:11,960
will happen,
783
00:22:11,960 –> 00:22:13,000
like with social media.
784
00:22:14,080 –> 00:22:14,600
For instance,
785
00:22:14,600 –> 00:22:17,000
let’s say you’re a media member,
786
00:22:17,040 –> 00:22:19,000
and they like to go off and shit.
787
00:22:19,240 –> 00:22:21,320
But in their little check mark thing,
788
00:22:21,960 –> 00:22:22,360
they say,
789
00:22:23,480 –> 00:22:27,000
I cover true crime for the Washington Post.
790
00:22:28,080 –> 00:22:30,520
And if you start just lipping off as yourself,
791
00:22:30,520 –> 00:22:35,640
right, they can not only sue you for libel,
792
00:22:36,960 –> 00:22:39,720
They can sue your company because you’re presenting
793
00:22:39,720 –> 00:22:41,680
yourself as that’s an official account.
794
00:22:42,040 –> 00:22:43,000
That’ll come,
795
00:22:43,040 –> 00:22:43,880
I’m pretty sure.
796
00:22:44,200 –> 00:22:45,320
I’m just waiting for it to come.
797
00:22:45,560 –> 00:22:47,080
Because people aren’t careful.
798
00:22:48,160 –> 00:22:49,160
So you mean if I like,
799
00:22:49,160 –> 00:22:51,920
if I should say I represent,
800
00:22:52,360 –> 00:22:53,560
I do true crime stories,
801
00:22:53,560 –> 00:22:57,320
then pick a company that I hate and post it and then
802
00:22:57,320 –> 00:22:58,520
just start lipping off.
803
00:22:58,680 –> 00:22:58,840
Right.
804
00:22:58,840 –> 00:22:59,960
Because they’re not going to come up.
805
00:22:59,960 –> 00:23:01,760
Well, then we’ll go to court and then a company say
806
00:23:01,760 –> 00:23:02,600
you don’t work for us,
807
00:23:02,600 –> 00:23:04,440
but if your publisher is HarperCollins,
808
00:23:05,080 –> 00:23:06,880
I’m the unauthor for HarperCollins,
809
00:23:06,880 –> 00:23:08,120
and then you start doing that shit.
810
00:23:08,440 –> 00:23:09,960
Yeah, it’s got the potential.
811
00:23:10,040 –> 00:23:10,760
So anyway,
812
00:23:11,240 –> 00:23:12,520
bringing it back here.
813
00:23:13,680 –> 00:23:15,080
Back to the Oakland County Child,
814
00:23:15,080 –> 00:23:15,360
by the way,
815
00:23:15,360 –> 00:23:16,080
what was the name?
816
00:23:16,280 –> 00:23:18,040
You do a lot of documentaries too,
817
00:23:18,040 –> 00:23:19,720
like Children of the Snow,
818
00:23:19,720 –> 00:23:20,520
that was on Hulu,
819
00:23:20,520 –> 00:23:20,840
right?
820
00:23:20,920 –> 00:23:21,480
Yeah, that was it.
821
00:23:21,480 –> 00:23:23,720
Millions, millions of views on that.
822
00:23:24,520 –> 00:23:25,800
Just a big hunger here.
823
00:23:25,920 –> 00:23:26,600
And to me,
824
00:23:26,920 –> 00:23:27,360
the Oakland,
825
00:23:28,040 –> 00:23:29,080
your book’s convincing.
826
00:23:29,560 –> 00:23:29,800
right?
827
00:23:29,800 –> 00:23:30,720
And others I know,
828
00:23:30,720 –> 00:23:31,480
like George Hunter,
829
00:23:31,640 –> 00:23:34,280
they agree with your theory that it wasn’t one person.
830
00:23:34,520 –> 00:23:35,320
It was a cabal.
831
00:23:35,480 –> 00:23:37,960
Some scummy people and some very,
832
00:23:37,960 –> 00:23:39,400
very rich,
833
00:23:39,560 –> 00:23:40,320
prominent,
834
00:23:40,520 –> 00:23:42,040
old money type of people.
835
00:23:42,120 –> 00:23:42,360
Right?
836
00:23:42,360 –> 00:23:44,040
It was like our Epstein.
837
00:23:45,000 –> 00:23:46,040
They had their own island too,
838
00:23:46,040 –> 00:23:46,520
didn’t they?
839
00:23:46,760 –> 00:23:47,400
Yeah, man.
840
00:23:47,480 –> 00:23:47,640
Yeah.
841
00:23:47,640 –> 00:23:48,760
Do you want me to talk about this now?
842
00:23:48,840 –> 00:23:50,600
Cause you listen and you won’t stop.
843
00:23:50,600 –> 00:23:51,800
No, and I want to know what,
844
00:23:51,880 –> 00:23:52,080
you know,
845
00:23:52,280 –> 00:23:53,920
we’re going to film a little bit and I want to know
846
00:23:53,920 –> 00:23:54,920
what you’re doing in town.
847
00:23:55,480 –> 00:24:00,120
I’m in town because after getting the Kill Jar published,
848
00:24:00,120 –> 00:24:01,120
I had, as you know,
849
00:24:01,120 –> 00:24:01,880
when you get a book out,
850
00:24:01,880 –> 00:24:03,480
you start to get messages from people.
851
00:24:03,720 –> 00:24:05,360
I got hundreds and hundreds of messages.
852
00:24:05,360 –> 00:24:06,920
Yeah, Brad Pitt called me motherfucker.
853
00:24:07,480 –> 00:24:08,760
I probably called you motherfucker,
854
00:24:09,240 –> 00:24:11,960
but I think he’s a liberal,
855
00:24:12,040 –> 00:24:12,680
lib liberal,
856
00:24:12,920 –> 00:24:14,280
but I don’t really know.
857
00:24:14,440 –> 00:24:16,840
You probably called Brad.
858
00:24:17,720 –> 00:24:18,040
He,
859
00:24:18,840 –> 00:24:20,480
I was about to talk about Brad Pitt now.
860
00:24:20,760 –> 00:24:21,720
He got me sidetracked.
861
00:24:22,360 –> 00:24:23,480
He is a gorgeous man.
862
00:24:23,480 –> 00:24:25,040
He was my first Hollywood crush.
863
00:24:25,040 –> 00:24:26,280
You don’t got legs like that.
864
00:24:26,280 –> 00:24:26,640
God damn.
865
00:24:29,640 –> 00:24:30,680
After writing the Kill Jar,
866
00:24:30,680 –> 00:24:32,360
I got all these messages from people saying,
867
00:24:32,360 –> 00:24:36,200
hey, I was almost abducted over at Seven Mile or whatever.
868
00:24:36,200 –> 00:24:38,760
Hey, my uncle lived down by the cast and raped,
869
00:24:38,920 –> 00:24:39,160
you know,
870
00:24:39,160 –> 00:24:39,840
my friends.
871
00:24:39,840 –> 00:24:42,640
And hey, there was a pedophile lived up the street
872
00:24:42,640 –> 00:24:44,920
from me down by Jumbo’s or hey,
873
00:24:45,080 –> 00:24:45,480
you know,
874
00:24:45,480 –> 00:24:46,160
all this stuff.
875
00:24:46,160 –> 00:24:47,000
And like, I mean,
876
00:24:47,000 –> 00:24:48,000
just nonstop.
877
00:24:48,000 –> 00:24:49,320
And then Children of the Snow.
878
00:24:49,480 –> 00:24:51,920
And I started getting messages from people around the
879
00:24:51,920 –> 00:24:52,200
world.
880
00:24:52,200 –> 00:24:53,640
I mean, for some weird reason,
881
00:24:53,640 –> 00:24:56,040
it was like the number one show for a month in Norway
882
00:24:56,040 –> 00:24:56,560
or something.
883
00:24:56,840 –> 00:24:57,960
So like, from,
884
00:24:57,960 –> 00:24:58,240
you know,
885
00:24:58,240 –> 00:24:58,760
I’m just saying,
886
00:24:59,040 –> 00:25:00,760
So you get these little blips around the world and
887
00:25:00,760 –> 00:25:01,160
you’re like,
888
00:25:01,240 –> 00:25:05,360
okay, so people be messaging me from Germany or Amsterdam
889
00:25:05,360 –> 00:25:05,840
or whatever,
890
00:25:05,840 –> 00:25:06,200
talking.
891
00:25:06,200 –> 00:25:06,840
Isn’t that great,
892
00:25:06,880 –> 00:25:07,080
though?
893
00:25:07,240 –> 00:25:07,960
It’s kind of cool.
894
00:25:08,040 –> 00:25:09,800
I got 3 bestsellers in Poland.
895
00:25:10,200 –> 00:25:10,880
Yeah, I don’t.
896
00:25:10,880 –> 00:25:12,640
They read the most of anybody in the world,
897
00:25:12,640 –> 00:25:13,480
which is awesome.
898
00:25:13,640 –> 00:25:14,520
She moved to Poland.
899
00:25:15,280 –> 00:25:16,200
I’m going to go.
900
00:25:17,560 –> 00:25:22,760
So I started realizing that one of the loose ends in
901
00:25:22,760 –> 00:25:23,960
my book was really the
902
00:25:24,560 –> 00:25:26,800
what Children of the Snow made the most out of,
903
00:25:26,800 –> 00:25:29,240
which was Frank Sheldon and his island,
904
00:25:29,240 –> 00:25:30,200
North Fox Island.
905
00:25:31,720 –> 00:25:36,680
Frank Sheldon was a descendant of Michigan’s biggest
906
00:25:36,680 –> 00:25:37,080
money.
907
00:25:37,320 –> 00:25:38,040
We’re not talking,
908
00:25:38,040 –> 00:25:40,280
oh, he had a bunch of money.
909
00:25:40,360 –> 00:25:42,200
His family developed Grosse Pointe.
910
00:25:43,080 –> 00:25:44,440
His great,
911
00:25:44,440 –> 00:25:47,960
great ancestor was Governor Alger of Michigan,
912
00:25:48,200 –> 00:25:51,320
also Secretary of War during the,
913
00:25:51,400 –> 00:25:53,640
I think it was Civil War or something like that.
914
00:25:53,880 –> 00:25:54,480
Also,
915
00:25:55,200 –> 00:25:56,440
another of his relatives,
916
00:25:56,440 –> 00:25:57,600
the Elders and the Sheldons,
917
00:25:57,600 –> 00:25:59,240
were two families that came together.
918
00:25:59,480 –> 00:26:02,280
Frank Sheldon comes from that merging.
919
00:26:02,600 –> 00:26:05,160
And the other,
920
00:26:05,160 –> 00:26:06,080
one of the other great,
921
00:26:06,080 –> 00:26:09,760
great whatevers was put up for president of the United
922
00:26:09,760 –> 00:26:10,200
States.
923
00:26:10,520 –> 00:26:12,320
I mean, we’re talking about the biggest money in the
924
00:26:12,320 –> 00:26:13,080
fucking country
925
00:26:13,640 –> 00:26:15,960
and certainly the biggest money in the state of Michigan.
926
00:26:15,960 –> 00:26:17,240
Not to go off on a tangent,
927
00:26:17,240 –> 00:26:18,760
but how did they make their money?
928
00:26:19,080 –> 00:26:20,760
They made their money with everything.
929
00:26:20,760 –> 00:26:22,840
that war museum that’s sitting over there by the water?
930
00:26:23,000 –> 00:26:23,160
Yeah.
931
00:26:23,160 –> 00:26:23,960
The big ass water.
932
00:26:23,960 –> 00:26:25,040
That was the Alger House.
933
00:26:25,040 –> 00:26:25,800
That was their home.
934
00:26:27,560 –> 00:26:28,760
They had lumber,
935
00:26:28,760 –> 00:26:29,560
they had oil,
936
00:26:29,560 –> 00:26:30,520
they had land,
937
00:26:30,600 –> 00:26:32,680
they developed half of this fucking city.
938
00:26:32,760 –> 00:26:33,640
They hung out with,
939
00:26:33,960 –> 00:26:35,560
I forget what his title was,
940
00:26:35,560 –> 00:26:36,280
but Cass,
941
00:26:36,360 –> 00:26:37,000
the guy Cass.
942
00:26:37,200 –> 00:26:37,800
Lewis Cass.
943
00:26:37,800 –> 00:26:39,720
Yeah, they were all together.
944
00:26:40,120 –> 00:26:42,840
Yeah, they all owned everything,
945
00:26:42,840 –> 00:26:43,160
man.
946
00:26:43,240 –> 00:26:45,720
And in liquor,
947
00:26:46,200 –> 00:26:47,080
they were bootleggers,
948
00:26:47,080 –> 00:26:48,120
they were all kinds of shit,
949
00:26:48,120 –> 00:26:48,280
man.
950
00:26:48,520 –> 00:26:49,800
They fucking did everything,
951
00:26:49,960 –> 00:26:51,800
and they still to this
952
00:26:52,480 –> 00:26:53,000
To this day,
953
00:26:53,000 –> 00:26:53,440
no doubt,
954
00:26:53,440 –> 00:26:54,040
do everything.
955
00:26:54,040 –> 00:26:57,720
There’s Austin Frank coming into the Oakland County
956
00:26:57,720 –> 00:26:59,480
child killer is Frank.
957
00:26:59,640 –> 00:27:02,200
So Frank Sheldon is a little bit of a nut.
958
00:27:02,840 –> 00:27:04,800
He’s the little the black sheep of the family,
959
00:27:04,800 –> 00:27:05,800
kind of, so to speak.
960
00:27:06,040 –> 00:27:07,640
But with his brother Alger,
961
00:27:07,720 –> 00:27:10,200
who was in high society in Detroit,
962
00:27:10,600 –> 00:27:12,120
who everybody who’s been around,
963
00:27:12,120 –> 00:27:14,680
anybody in their 80s or if they were alive,
964
00:27:14,680 –> 00:27:16,040
110 or whatever the fuck,
965
00:27:16,120 –> 00:27:18,120
they all know who the fuck Alger Sheldon is.
966
00:27:18,920 –> 00:27:21,920
Frank Sheldon bought Fox Island for like 23 grand or
967
00:27:21,920 –> 00:27:22,400
something like that.
968
00:27:22,480 –> 00:27:23,320
that in the 60s.
969
00:27:23,480 –> 00:27:24,960
Now the state owns it.
970
00:27:25,160 –> 00:27:25,680
But back then,
971
00:27:25,680 –> 00:27:27,120
he and his brother coast.
972
00:27:27,120 –> 00:27:27,960
Which is Lake Michigan,
973
00:27:27,960 –> 00:27:28,200
right?
974
00:27:28,200 –> 00:27:30,800
Yeah, that’s up off the Leland Peninsula.
975
00:27:30,800 –> 00:27:31,800
It’s off of Charlevoix,
976
00:27:31,880 –> 00:27:32,520
how you fly there.
977
00:27:32,520 –> 00:27:36,360
We took a boat last week to there from Leland.
978
00:27:36,600 –> 00:27:40,720
But I realized that I didn’t do nothing about Frank
979
00:27:40,720 –> 00:27:42,960
Sheldon in the kill jar because he absconded from
980
00:27:42,960 –> 00:27:43,400
justice.
981
00:27:43,400 –> 00:27:44,720
The feds came in on the island.
982
00:27:44,720 –> 00:27:46,480
They realized he was running a pornography mill.
983
00:27:46,480 –> 00:27:49,720
They realized also that it was tied to Father Bud’s
984
00:27:49,720 –> 00:27:51,400
Boys Farm in Montego,
985
00:27:51,400 –> 00:27:51,960
Tennessee,
986
00:27:52,040 –> 00:27:52,360
which was
987
00:27:52,480 –> 00:27:53,640
another pornography mill.
988
00:27:53,880 –> 00:27:54,680
You don’t have to know,
989
00:27:54,760 –> 00:27:57,440
you don’t have to know anything about what I’m saying
990
00:27:57,440 –> 00:28:00,160
except for the fact that here in this part of the
991
00:28:00,160 –> 00:28:03,160
country, Frank Sheldon was making child pornography
992
00:28:03,320 –> 00:28:05,240
by pretending that he was running a nature camp for
993
00:28:05,240 –> 00:28:08,320
boys taking underprivileged kids from Port Huron and
994
00:28:08,320 –> 00:28:11,160
Detroit and Ann Arbor and wherever the fuck their
995
00:28:11,160 –> 00:28:14,080
parents would sign permission slips and
996
00:28:14,720 –> 00:28:16,280
He’d go to the fucking island with them.
997
00:28:16,280 –> 00:28:18,920
They’d land on this island 25 miles from the shore
998
00:28:19,120 –> 00:28:20,040
of Michigan,
999
00:28:20,200 –> 00:28:22,200
25 miles out into Lake Michigan,
1000
00:28:22,360 –> 00:28:24,680
nowhere to fucking go for 10 days at a stretch.
1001
00:28:25,000 –> 00:28:26,280
And they would get there.
1002
00:28:26,360 –> 00:28:28,280
And the very first thing that would be told to them
1003
00:28:28,280 –> 00:28:29,040
is, take off your clothes.
1004
00:28:29,040 –> 00:28:30,760
We’re going to run around on the island,
1005
00:28:30,760 –> 00:28:31,320
on the beach,
1006
00:28:31,480 –> 00:28:32,520
and we’re going to swim,
1007
00:28:32,680 –> 00:28:34,760
and we’re going to be natural,
1008
00:28:34,760 –> 00:28:35,720
natural here.
1009
00:28:35,960 –> 00:28:38,360
And everything they did was filmed.
1010
00:28:39,000 –> 00:28:40,280
They were raped and filmed.
1011
00:28:40,280 –> 00:28:41,720
And there’s many survivors.
1012
00:28:41,720 –> 00:28:42,440
And there are many,
1013
00:28:42,440 –> 00:28:43,080
many, many,
1014
00:28:43,080 –> 00:28:43,640
many.
1015
00:28:43,920 –> 00:28:44,600
And look, man,
1016
00:28:44,720 –> 00:28:46,280
And look, anybody in the world could say,
1017
00:28:46,280 –> 00:28:47,400
you could take anybody and say,
1018
00:28:47,400 –> 00:28:48,760
man, he’s spinning all this bullshit.
1019
00:28:49,560 –> 00:28:53,560
No, Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of
1020
00:28:53,560 –> 00:28:55,560
police documents from the Michigan State Police,
1021
00:28:55,560 –> 00:28:56,600
from the FBI.
1022
00:28:56,920 –> 00:28:58,840
Everybody knew what was going on with Frank Sheldon
1023
00:28:59,320 –> 00:29:00,520
at a certain point.
1024
00:29:01,240 –> 00:29:03,560
Then Frank Sheldon got tipped off before he could get
1025
00:29:03,560 –> 00:29:04,000
arrested.
1026
00:29:04,000 –> 00:29:06,160
He ran to many places in the States.
1027
00:29:06,160 –> 00:29:06,960
He ran to Antigua,
1028
00:29:06,960 –> 00:29:07,720
all this plus shit.
1029
00:29:07,800 –> 00:29:09,320
He ended up in the Netherlands.
1030
00:29:10,200 –> 00:29:11,520
And I wrote that book.
1031
00:29:11,520 –> 00:29:12,720
I wrote it off at that point.
1032
00:29:12,720 –> 00:29:13,080
I said, well,
1033
00:29:13,080 –> 00:29:13,800
he got away.
1034
00:29:13,800 –> 00:29:14,600
He got away.
1035
00:29:15,120 –> 00:29:19,240
And then over the Netherlands saw the show and it picks
1036
00:29:19,240 –> 00:29:20,120
up again.
1037
00:29:20,480 –> 00:29:22,680
And some of these motherfuckers start messaging me
1038
00:29:22,680 –> 00:29:25,040
going, you know,
1039
00:29:25,040 –> 00:29:26,000
that shit didn’t stop.
1040
00:29:26,000 –> 00:29:26,880
And I thought to myself,
1041
00:29:27,400 –> 00:29:28,360
and I thought to myself,
1042
00:29:28,686 –> 00:29:29,326
fuck.
1043
00:29:29,486 –> 00:29:30,766
I really dropped the ball here.
1044
00:29:30,766 –> 00:29:31,726
Like, in fact,
1045
00:29:31,726 –> 00:29:33,966
I wrote a screenplay about,
1046
00:29:34,006 –> 00:29:34,766
and you’re in it,
1047
00:29:34,766 –> 00:29:35,166
Charlie.
1048
00:29:35,886 –> 00:29:36,846
I wrote a screenplay.
1049
00:29:36,846 –> 00:29:37,726
I didn’t do shit.
1050
00:29:38,046 –> 00:29:39,006
I wrote a screenplay.
1051
00:29:39,086 –> 00:29:40,726
I started to sense I dropped the ball.
1052
00:29:40,726 –> 00:29:42,126
I started to sense I dropped the ball.
1053
00:29:42,606 –> 00:29:45,766
So by not following Frank Sheldon and where he went
1054
00:29:45,766 –> 00:29:47,006
in after he left.
1055
00:29:47,406 –> 00:29:49,006
And I wrote a screenplay about a guy,
1056
00:29:49,166 –> 00:29:51,086
a guy who wrote The Kill Jar,
1057
00:29:51,246 –> 00:29:53,166
who comes back from prison because he got set up by
1058
00:29:53,166 –> 00:29:53,886
the DPD.
1059
00:29:54,046 –> 00:29:56,526
He comes back from prison and gets involved in another
1060
00:29:56,526 –> 00:29:58,126
active serial investigation.
1061
00:29:58,526 –> 00:30:01,806
tied to the Oakland County child killings because he
1062
00:30:01,806 –> 00:30:03,006
fucking dropped the ball.
1063
00:30:03,726 –> 00:30:05,486
And anyway,
1064
00:30:05,486 –> 00:30:06,046
the point is,
1065
00:30:06,126 –> 00:30:06,606
you’re in it,
1066
00:30:06,606 –> 00:30:06,926
you’re in it.
1067
00:30:06,926 –> 00:30:09,766
Because I needed a journalist to feed my character
1068
00:30:09,766 –> 00:30:10,446
information,
1069
00:30:10,446 –> 00:30:10,846
you know?
1070
00:30:11,006 –> 00:30:13,326
So I wrote Charlie’s working at the Coney and,
1071
00:30:13,326 –> 00:30:13,606
you know,
1072
00:30:13,606 –> 00:30:13,966
whatever.
1073
00:30:14,286 –> 00:30:16,806
And I would have eventually changed the name or something
1074
00:30:16,806 –> 00:30:17,886
if somebody bought it.
1075
00:30:18,206 –> 00:30:18,846
But my point is,
1076
00:30:19,086 –> 00:30:20,206
already five years ago,
1077
00:30:20,206 –> 00:30:21,486
I was thinking I dropped the ball.
1078
00:30:21,526 –> 00:30:22,246
And then this kid,
1079
00:30:22,246 –> 00:30:23,086
this YouTuber,
1080
00:30:23,086 –> 00:30:23,886
Colin Browen,
1081
00:30:24,766 –> 00:30:26,286
he got ahold of me and said,
1082
00:30:26,366 –> 00:30:28,206
I want to interview you about Fox Island.
1083
00:30:29,406 –> 00:30:31,966
We did a three-part or a three-hour documentary for
1084
00:30:31,966 –> 00:30:33,446
YouTube, just went straight to YouTube.
1085
00:30:33,886 –> 00:30:34,486
In like a week,
1086
00:30:34,486 –> 00:30:35,806
it got a million and a half views.
1087
00:30:36,046 –> 00:30:36,766
And he said,
1088
00:30:37,006 –> 00:30:39,166
I mean, he’s got like 5 million social followers or
1089
00:30:39,166 –> 00:30:40,126
some crazy shit.
1090
00:30:40,726 –> 00:30:41,646
And he said,
1091
00:30:41,646 –> 00:30:45,166
hey, how would you feel about doing a six-part series
1092
00:30:45,726 –> 00:30:46,926
following Frank Sheldon?
1093
00:30:47,326 –> 00:30:49,806
And he’s still alive at the time.
1094
00:30:50,046 –> 00:30:51,646
Frank Sheldon’s not following his trail.
1095
00:30:51,646 –> 00:30:53,726
Frank Sheldon allegedly died in 96.
1096
00:30:54,406 –> 00:30:54,766
But he said,
1097
00:30:54,766 –> 00:30:57,366
following the trail because we’re also starting to
1098
00:30:57,366 –> 00:30:59,886
get, I’m starting to get pinged from India and shit.
1099
00:31:00,166 –> 00:31:02,206
Like Frank Sheldon started an orphanage somewhere.
1100
00:31:02,206 –> 00:31:02,766
I’m like, what?
1101
00:31:03,566 –> 00:31:04,926
I’m like, what is going on here,
1102
00:31:04,926 –> 00:31:05,246
man?
1103
00:31:05,246 –> 00:31:06,286
So I said,
1104
00:31:06,366 –> 00:31:07,646
Colin, no,
1105
00:31:07,646 –> 00:31:09,166
I don’t want to deal with any of this shit.
1106
00:31:09,166 –> 00:31:10,446
I’m trying to live my fucking life.
1107
00:31:11,006 –> 00:31:12,286
I don’t want this dark shit.
1108
00:31:12,366 –> 00:31:13,806
Yeah, I don’t want darkness.
1109
00:31:13,806 –> 00:31:15,006
I want to be happy.
1110
00:31:15,006 –> 00:31:18,646
I just want to write true crime novels about four students
1111
00:31:18,646 –> 00:31:19,966
that got their heads cut off.
1112
00:31:19,966 –> 00:31:20,806
Well, that’s what happened,
1113
00:31:20,806 –> 00:31:21,166
dude.
1114
00:31:21,246 –> 00:31:21,886
That’s what happened.
1115
00:31:22,126 –> 00:31:24,326
I that writing that book burned me
1116
00:31:24,606 –> 00:31:27,486
I thought why am I doing this like you are nut man?
1117
00:31:27,566 –> 00:31:29,086
Well, it burned me out,
1118
00:31:29,086 –> 00:31:31,726
you know your personality once it’s because you know
1119
00:31:31,726 –> 00:31:34,526
I met you those many years ago and what?
1120
00:31:35,246 –> 00:31:38,206
How long were you working on just Oakland County child
1121
00:31:38,206 –> 00:31:38,526
killer?
1122
00:31:40,126 –> 00:31:43,806
10 years 10 so you’re the kind of guy when it’s in
1123
00:31:43,806 –> 00:31:46,166
there It’s you’re a dog man.
1124
00:31:46,166 –> 00:31:47,646
Your dog had kneecaps.
1125
00:31:47,646 –> 00:31:49,486
It’s just you can’t let it go.
1126
00:31:49,886 –> 00:31:51,166
So I would embrace this
1127
00:31:51,926 –> 00:31:53,206
I would not be burned out.
1128
00:31:53,726 –> 00:31:59,086
I would finish it because there’s the two big crime
1129
00:31:59,086 –> 00:32:02,526
cases in the history of this state is the Oakland
1130
00:32:02,526 –> 00:32:04,846
County child killer and Jimmy Hoffa.
1131
00:32:05,486 –> 00:32:06,966
And I want to,
1132
00:32:07,806 –> 00:32:10,046
you never really came to the conclusion.
1133
00:32:10,126 –> 00:32:12,526
You never said it in the book as I recall.
1134
00:32:13,086 –> 00:32:13,846
Who did this?
1135
00:32:13,846 –> 00:32:15,726
So Frank’s the ringleader of this?
1136
00:32:15,886 –> 00:32:16,526
Okay, man.
1137
00:32:16,526 –> 00:32:17,806
So I said,
1138
00:32:17,806 –> 00:32:17,966
no.
1139
00:32:18,046 –> 00:32:21,086
I said, I don’t want to work on this shit at all.
1140
00:32:21,086 –> 00:32:22,366
And about six months later,
1141
00:32:22,606 –> 00:32:24,286
had some personal shit happen in my life.
1142
00:32:24,286 –> 00:32:24,766
And I said,
1143
00:32:24,766 –> 00:32:26,766
and something clicked over and I said,
1144
00:32:27,406 –> 00:32:28,046
oh, fuck yeah,
1145
00:32:28,046 –> 00:32:29,726
we’re going to work on this because fuck all these
1146
00:32:29,726 –> 00:32:30,446
motherfuckers.
1147
00:32:30,846 –> 00:32:32,566
And that’s,
1148
00:32:32,566 –> 00:32:33,286
I called them up and said,
1149
00:32:33,286 –> 00:32:34,206
yeah, let’s do this thing.
1150
00:32:34,206 –> 00:32:36,086
So now we’re traveling the globe,
1151
00:32:36,086 –> 00:32:36,686
basically.
1152
00:32:37,406 –> 00:32:39,006
Following the trail of Frank Sheldon.
1153
00:32:39,886 –> 00:32:43,086
We went to Europe together Some of those guys went
1154
00:32:43,086 –> 00:32:43,806
to India.
1155
00:32:43,966 –> 00:32:46,366
We just came back from North Fox Island from Manitou
1156
00:32:46,366 –> 00:32:48,846
Island from Port Huron from everywhere.
1157
00:32:48,846 –> 00:32:51,406
That’s what I’m doing back right now and you could
1158
00:32:51,406 –> 00:32:52,926
say Yeah,
1159
00:32:53,486 –> 00:32:56,286
I’m telling you this cuz you said who’s this Frank
1160
00:32:56,286 –> 00:32:57,246
Sheldon the ringleader?
1161
00:32:58,926 –> 00:33:01,566
Frank Sheldon is just the tip of the fucking iceberg
1162
00:33:01,566 –> 00:33:02,606
man like
1163
00:33:03,646 –> 00:33:04,286
There are,
1164
00:33:05,006 –> 00:33:07,926
if you talk about like the mob family or something
1165
00:33:07,926 –> 00:33:09,326
in the Don or whatever,
1166
00:33:09,566 –> 00:33:11,726
Frank Sheldon I would say is not a Don,
1167
00:33:11,726 –> 00:33:12,606
he’s a capo.
1168
00:33:12,926 –> 00:33:15,646
And the Don would be like fucking,
1169
00:33:16,526 –> 00:33:18,126
I mean, I’m going to say it,
1170
00:33:18,846 –> 00:33:20,646
but people are going to be like,
1171
00:33:20,646 –> 00:33:21,566
oh, it’s just horseshit.
1172
00:33:21,886 –> 00:33:25,806
It’s some sort of version of government entity collusion
1173
00:33:25,806 –> 00:33:26,606
type of shit.
1174
00:33:27,166 –> 00:33:28,126
You look at Diddy,
1175
00:33:28,206 –> 00:33:29,326
you look at Epstein,
1176
00:33:29,446 –> 00:33:31,606
and you look at compromat ideas and shit like that,
1177
00:33:31,606 –> 00:33:32,006
and you think,
1178
00:33:32,006 –> 00:33:34,046
what was the point of all this shit?
1179
00:33:34,246 –> 00:33:36,446
And why do all these motherfuckers get away and whatever?
1180
00:33:36,846 –> 00:33:39,886
I have no doubt in my mind that Frank Sheldon was part
1181
00:33:39,886 –> 00:33:43,566
of some sort of compromat thing because when you look
1182
00:33:43,566 –> 00:33:46,206
at, or at least they were smart enough to get compromat
1183
00:33:46,206 –> 00:33:46,846
on people,
1184
00:33:47,326 –> 00:33:49,966
because when you look at how he got away,
1185
00:33:50,126 –> 00:33:51,406
his fucking attorney
1186
00:33:51,966 –> 00:33:53,846
I think his attorney’s still alive sitting here in
1187
00:33:53,846 –> 00:33:54,286
Detroit.
1188
00:33:54,526 –> 00:33:54,766
L.
1189
00:33:54,766 –> 00:33:55,326
Bennett Young,
1190
00:33:55,326 –> 00:33:56,206
he might have died,
1191
00:33:56,366 –> 00:34:00,766
but his attorney with Alger Sheldon was able to get
1192
00:34:01,006 –> 00:34:03,486
Frank Sheldon all of his fucking family money for
1193
00:34:03,486 –> 00:34:05,926
the rest of Frank Sheldon’s natural life without the
1194
00:34:05,926 –> 00:34:07,726
feds doing any goddamn thing about it.
1195
00:34:07,886 –> 00:34:11,166
There’s conversations we have between the American
1196
00:34:11,166 –> 00:34:14,046
feds and the Europeans saying like,
1197
00:34:14,126 –> 00:34:15,886
hey, we need Frank Sheldon over here.
1198
00:34:15,966 –> 00:34:16,846
And the Europeans saying,
1199
00:34:16,846 –> 00:34:17,686
yeah, we’ll get back to you,
1200
00:34:17,686 –> 00:34:18,286
basically.
1201
00:34:19,086 –> 00:34:20,486
His attorney over-
1202
00:34:20,486 –> 00:34:21,846
But you have documentation of this.
1203
00:34:22,126 –> 00:34:24,446
And why are the American authorities saying we need
1204
00:34:24,446 –> 00:34:25,166
them over here?
1205
00:34:25,646 –> 00:34:27,566
The good American authorities,
1206
00:34:27,566 –> 00:34:28,206
let’s call it,
1207
00:34:28,366 –> 00:34:30,246
let’s say the people who are actually actively trying
1208
00:34:30,246 –> 00:34:31,966
to do their job are saying,
1209
00:34:31,966 –> 00:34:32,286
hey.
1210
00:34:32,686 –> 00:34:33,806
Kind of like the Epstein shit.
1211
00:34:33,886 –> 00:34:36,286
Yeah, but then they get immediately shut down.
1212
00:34:37,166 –> 00:34:40,046
And then every time you can see the shutdown immediately
1213
00:34:40,046 –> 00:34:41,246
going, oh yeah,
1214
00:34:41,246 –> 00:34:42,926
we’ll work on that for you or whatever.
1215
00:34:43,086 –> 00:34:46,446
His attorney over there in Amsterdam was a Dutch senator.
1216
00:34:46,606 –> 00:34:48,606
So that’s his attorney,
1217
00:34:48,806 –> 00:34:49,646
a Dutch senator.
1218
00:34:50,606 –> 00:34:51,806
One of the Algers
1219
00:34:52,006 –> 00:34:56,126
over here was the ambassador to the American ambassador
1220
00:34:56,126 –> 00:34:59,726
to Belgium at the time when Frank Sheldon was living
1221
00:34:59,726 –> 00:35:00,606
in the Netherlands.
1222
00:35:00,846 –> 00:35:02,446
So there’s all kinds of shit.
1223
00:35:02,446 –> 00:35:03,246
You say like,
1224
00:35:03,246 –> 00:35:03,886
oh, you could say,
1225
00:35:03,886 –> 00:35:06,486
well, he’s just politically entrenched and they’re
1226
00:35:06,486 –> 00:35:08,366
not going to they’re not going to send him to justice.
1227
00:35:08,526 –> 00:35:09,446
It’s bigger than that,
1228
00:35:09,446 –> 00:35:12,326
man, because you also have people that were on Frank
1229
00:35:12,326 –> 00:35:12,566
Sheldon.
1230
00:35:12,686 –> 00:35:14,126
You know, speaking of journalists,
1231
00:35:14,366 –> 00:35:15,766
you got a journalist,
1232
00:35:15,766 –> 00:35:16,446
Marilyn Wright,
1233
00:35:16,446 –> 00:35:17,326
in Traverse City.
1234
00:35:17,486 –> 00:35:19,646
She broke most of this fucking Frank Sheldon case.
1235
00:35:19,886 –> 00:35:21,326
She’s just a 50 year old
1236
00:35:22,446 –> 00:35:25,246
short, old lady and old at the time.
1237
00:35:25,246 –> 00:35:26,406
I’m 10 years younger than me.
1238
00:35:26,406 –> 00:35:29,246
Hey man, I mean back then people got old quicker I
1239
00:35:29,246 –> 00:35:30,006
think they didn’t have.
1240
00:35:30,006 –> 00:35:30,526
Oh that’s true.
1241
00:35:30,606 –> 00:35:34,126
You know and she’s and she’s breaking this shit about
1242
00:35:34,126 –> 00:35:35,486
a national porn syndicate.
1243
00:35:36,246 –> 00:35:37,726
From Traverse City Record Eagle,
1244
00:35:37,726 –> 00:35:39,686
she’s writing stories that the Detroit News won’t
1245
00:35:39,686 –> 00:35:42,766
cover, that the fucking Boston Globe won’t cover,
1246
00:35:42,766 –> 00:35:44,046
that the New York Times won’t cover.
1247
00:35:44,446 –> 00:35:45,806
She’s writing these stories.
1248
00:35:45,966 –> 00:35:49,366
They have a Senate judiciary hearing on child pornography
1249
00:35:49,366 –> 00:35:52,326
and child rape because of her stories in Traverse
1250
00:35:52,326 –> 00:35:52,926
City Eagle.
1251
00:35:53,086 –> 00:35:55,486
This happened in 1977 or 78,
1252
00:35:55,486 –> 00:35:56,126
the judiciary.
1253
00:35:56,606 –> 00:35:57,166
Yeah, man.
1254
00:35:57,326 –> 00:35:57,806
Yeah, man.
1255
00:35:57,886 –> 00:35:58,926
Because of her stories.
1256
00:35:59,006 –> 00:36:01,166
And they pull all these fucking pedophiles who are
1257
00:36:01,166 –> 00:36:03,166
already in prison to testify.
1258
00:36:04,286 –> 00:36:06,526
not just testify,
1259
00:36:06,526 –> 00:36:08,126
but to not just pedophiles,
1260
00:36:08,126 –> 00:36:10,446
I mean, but pedophile is part of a pornography ring.
1261
00:36:10,526 –> 00:36:11,326
Not just pedophiles,
1262
00:36:11,326 –> 00:36:12,686
because there’s pedophiles everywhere.
1263
00:36:13,646 –> 00:36:14,606
Part of a pornography ring.
1264
00:36:14,686 –> 00:36:16,446
They call him this guy Jerry Richards,
1265
00:36:16,526 –> 00:36:18,126
who was a gym teacher in Port Huron,
1266
00:36:18,366 –> 00:36:20,286
and he draws them a fucking map.
1267
00:36:21,726 –> 00:36:24,646
this big on a piece of paper with little circles with
1268
00:36:24,646 –> 00:36:27,566
little names in little circles and little names of
1269
00:36:27,566 –> 00:36:29,646
organ and those names are organizations around the
1270
00:36:29,646 –> 00:36:30,126
country.
1271
00:36:30,206 –> 00:36:32,886
And some of those organizations are funded by some
1272
00:36:32,886 –> 00:36:33,966
of our politicians,
1273
00:36:34,206 –> 00:36:35,446
judges, doctors,
1274
00:36:35,446 –> 00:36:36,126
attorneys,
1275
00:36:36,286 –> 00:36:37,166
all kinds of people,
1276
00:36:37,166 –> 00:36:37,886
business owners,
1277
00:36:37,886 –> 00:36:39,006
captains of the industry,
1278
00:36:39,406 –> 00:36:40,286
all these fucking,
1279
00:36:40,606 –> 00:36:42,526
he says, here’s what it is,
1280
00:36:42,526 –> 00:36:43,886
little gym teacher in Port Huron.
1281
00:36:44,366 –> 00:36:48,446
And everybody takes it seriously.
1282
00:36:48,846 –> 00:36:50,366
Everybody at the time.
1283
00:36:50,366 –> 00:36:51,166
Nobody says,
1284
00:36:51,606 –> 00:36:52,006
that’s not true,
1285
00:36:52,006 –> 00:36:54,486
because what they can do is they can call over a Tennessee
1286
00:36:54,486 –> 00:36:55,766
and go, things like,
1287
00:36:55,806 –> 00:36:56,406
was there a boy,
1288
00:36:56,406 –> 00:36:58,326
what’s this boy’s farm Tennessee shit he’s talking
1289
00:36:58,326 –> 00:36:58,606
about?
1290
00:36:58,766 –> 00:37:00,366
And the feds over there are going,
1291
00:37:00,366 –> 00:37:02,686
yeah, we just busted that shit or whatever.
1292
00:37:02,926 –> 00:37:05,486
And he’s saying they’re all interconnected through
1293
00:37:05,486 –> 00:37:07,886
political weavings.
1294
00:37:08,126 –> 00:37:08,526
And
1295
00:37:10,406 –> 00:37:11,486
He seems to be right.
1296
00:37:11,646 –> 00:37:13,326
So nobody,
1297
00:37:13,406 –> 00:37:14,606
nobody dismisses it,
1298
00:37:14,766 –> 00:37:16,366
but nobody follows up on it.
1299
00:37:16,366 –> 00:37:17,246
And there’s the rug.
1300
00:37:17,246 –> 00:37:17,566
Nobody.
1301
00:37:17,566 –> 00:37:18,286
Yeah, bro.
1302
00:37:18,686 –> 00:37:20,046
1976, 97.
1303
00:37:20,046 –> 00:37:20,846
You can Google right now.
1304
00:37:20,846 –> 00:37:21,566
Anybody can do this.
1305
00:37:21,966 –> 00:37:24,566
Something like Senate Judiciary hearings on child pornography.
1306
00:37:24,566 –> 00:37:25,006
What year?
1307
00:37:25,486 –> 00:37:27,246
1976 or 77?
1308
00:37:27,326 –> 00:37:28,526
It’s 1977.
1309
00:37:29,086 –> 00:37:33,286
When did the Oakland County child murder?
1310
00:37:34,046 –> 00:37:35,486
Yeah, 76 and 77.
1311
00:37:35,486 –> 00:37:36,126
The judiciary,
1312
00:37:36,126 –> 00:37:37,366
the judiciary,
1313
00:37:37,486 –> 00:37:40,126
the judiciary meeting might have happened in 78 at
1314
00:37:40,126 –> 00:37:40,846
the latest.
1315
00:37:41,086 –> 00:37:41,406
But I mean,
1316
00:37:41,406 –> 00:37:44,206
I just can’t remember whether it was end of 77.
1317
00:37:44,286 –> 00:37:45,326
Has the Sheldon family,
1318
00:37:45,326 –> 00:37:47,806
have you been able to talk to anybody in that family?
1319
00:37:47,886 –> 00:37:48,206
No, man.
1320
00:37:48,206 –> 00:37:48,766
Have you tried?
1321
00:37:48,926 –> 00:37:49,686
Yeah, we’ve tried.
1322
00:37:50,046 –> 00:37:50,526
We’ve tried.
1323
00:37:50,526 –> 00:37:51,046
We talked to,
1324
00:37:51,126 –> 00:37:51,926
and you look at H.
1325
00:37:51,926 –> 00:37:52,606
Lee Bush, okay,
1326
00:37:52,606 –> 00:37:54,726
Christopher Bush was the number one suspect in the
1327
00:37:54,726 –> 00:37:55,806
Oakland County child killings.
1328
00:37:57,166 –> 00:38:00,126
He was the son of a General Motors executive.
1329
00:38:00,526 –> 00:38:02,846
He lived in Bluefield Hills.
1330
00:38:02,926 –> 00:38:03,326
In the book,
1331
00:38:03,326 –> 00:38:03,646
Everybody,
1332
00:38:03,646 –> 00:38:05,766
he was officially like the main suspect.
1333
00:38:05,766 –> 00:38:06,526
Oh, officially.
1334
00:38:06,606 –> 00:38:07,886
Not only officially,
1335
00:38:08,206 –> 00:38:12,206
but he had his partner in these criminal sexual conduct
1336
00:38:12,526 –> 00:38:13,646
charges, Gregory Green.
1337
00:38:13,646 –> 00:38:15,806
He and Gregory Green were traveling the state,
1338
00:38:17,246 –> 00:38:19,406
basically grooming and raping children.
1339
00:38:19,486 –> 00:38:21,046
I don’t call it molesting anymore,
1340
00:38:21,046 –> 00:38:22,126
brother, because it’s bullshit.
1341
00:38:22,286 –> 00:38:23,206
That’s the thing we use.
1342
00:38:23,246 –> 00:38:26,366
So, yeah, So they were…
1343
00:38:26,566 –> 00:38:26,926
Yeah, Like,
1344
00:38:27,366 –> 00:38:27,966
what do you mean?
1345
00:38:28,046 –> 00:38:29,406
Yeah, absolutely.
1346
00:38:29,646 –> 00:38:30,406
They were they were traveling.
1347
00:38:30,526 –> 00:38:31,486
in the state doing this.
1348
00:38:31,806 –> 00:38:33,966
The Bush family had all kinds of fucking money.
1349
00:38:35,486 –> 00:38:35,726
H.
1350
00:38:35,726 –> 00:38:37,966
Lee Bush was the chief financial officer,
1351
00:38:37,966 –> 00:38:40,446
something like some title like that for North American
1352
00:38:40,446 –> 00:38:41,246
General Motors.
1353
00:38:41,646 –> 00:38:42,286
At some point,
1354
00:38:42,286 –> 00:38:43,086
they relocated.
1355
00:38:43,406 –> 00:38:46,726
Christopher Bush went to the Larosi School,
1356
00:38:46,726 –> 00:38:49,966
where like the children of the Heinz Corporation go
1357
00:38:49,966 –> 00:38:50,526
and all this shit.
1358
00:38:50,526 –> 00:38:51,886
It’s a private school in Switzerland.
1359
00:38:51,886 –> 00:38:52,766
He was from here,
1360
00:38:53,006 –> 00:38:56,926
but for like most of his education was at the Larosi
1361
00:38:56,926 –> 00:38:57,246
School.
1362
00:38:58,526 –> 00:39:00,406
Children of Sheiks and shit like that go there.
1363
00:39:00,486 –> 00:39:00,686
there.
1364
00:39:01,006 –> 00:39:04,206
And H.
1365
00:39:04,206 –> 00:39:08,886
Lee Bush was transferred to Germany to run this Northland,
1366
00:39:09,246 –> 00:39:11,206
to run one of the European division or whatever the
1367
00:39:11,206 –> 00:39:12,846
fuck of GM at that time,
1368
00:39:12,846 –> 00:39:13,966
the financial part of it.
1369
00:39:14,446 –> 00:39:19,166
And I started to get correspondences from people that
1370
00:39:19,166 –> 00:39:21,846
were in those areas where Christopher Bush was living
1371
00:39:22,126 –> 00:39:23,006
as a late teen.
1372
00:39:23,246 –> 00:39:27,046
And he stayed on as a teaching assistant at Lavrosi
1373
00:39:27,046 –> 00:39:27,686
and all this stuff.
1374
00:39:27,846 –> 00:39:29,406
And he was molesting people over there.
1375
00:39:29,926 –> 00:39:31,606
according to some of these emails and according to
1376
00:39:31,606 –> 00:39:32,846
some witnesses and all this stuff,
1377
00:39:32,846 –> 00:39:33,086
right?
1378
00:39:33,086 –> 00:39:34,766
So H.
1379
00:39:34,766 –> 00:39:38,606
Lee Bush is running around Michigan at that time.
1380
00:39:38,846 –> 00:39:41,286
He’s the not only is the he’s the number one suspect
1381
00:39:41,286 –> 00:39:44,166
because his buddy Greg Green got pulled in on a criminal
1382
00:39:44,166 –> 00:39:46,126
sexual conduct charge and dimed on him,
1383
00:39:46,286 –> 00:39:49,006
dimed on Christopher Bush as the killer of Mark Stebbins,
1384
00:39:49,006 –> 00:39:49,806
the first killer.
1385
00:39:50,526 –> 00:39:50,846
And
1386
00:39:52,606 –> 00:39:55,246
But then he allegedly passed a polygraph.
1387
00:39:55,246 –> 00:39:56,046
Well, that’s not true.
1388
00:39:56,286 –> 00:39:58,926
2008, there’s a private polygrapher that says,
1389
00:39:59,086 –> 00:40:02,126
I actually did the pre-polygraph on him with his lawyer
1390
00:40:02,126 –> 00:40:04,686
present, and he failed that polygraph and admitted
1391
00:40:04,686 –> 00:40:05,486
to the killings.
1392
00:40:07,246 –> 00:40:08,206
Do you have that on record?
1393
00:40:08,646 –> 00:40:09,206
that’s on record.
1394
00:40:09,206 –> 00:40:09,486
That’s in,
1395
00:40:09,486 –> 00:40:10,046
that’s in,
1396
00:40:10,126 –> 00:40:10,766
that’s in,
1397
00:40:10,766 –> 00:40:11,326
that’s in,
1398
00:40:11,326 –> 00:40:13,926
that’s in the Kill Jar and we have it on record.
1399
00:40:13,926 –> 00:40:14,446
And not only that,
1400
00:40:14,446 –> 00:40:15,126
but Kathy King.
1401
00:40:15,126 –> 00:40:15,646
Yeah, that’s right.
1402
00:40:15,646 –> 00:40:16,126
Kathy King,
1403
00:40:16,126 –> 00:40:18,206
she’s the sister of Timothy King,
1404
00:40:18,206 –> 00:40:19,966
the, let me do this real quick before we get lost
1405
00:40:19,966 –> 00:40:21,246
in like so many names.
1406
00:40:21,246 –> 00:40:22,206
You gotta sell some shit?
1407
00:40:22,206 –> 00:40:22,486
No.
1408
00:40:22,486 –> 00:40:33,486
So there’s a international pedophilia ring and porn,
1409
00:40:33,966 –> 00:40:35,406
child porn syndicate.
1410
00:40:37,206 –> 00:40:40,486
Is this like some person attached to that commits the
1411
00:40:40,486 –> 00:40:40,926
killings?
1412
00:40:40,926 –> 00:40:41,486
It’s just like,
1413
00:40:41,966 –> 00:40:43,166
of all these sickos,
1414
00:40:43,326 –> 00:40:44,606
this person’s super sick?
1415
00:40:44,926 –> 00:40:46,766
Or do you think it was one person,
1416
00:40:46,766 –> 00:40:47,646
two people,
1417
00:40:47,886 –> 00:40:48,526
three people?
1418
00:40:48,526 –> 00:40:50,126
Was it a gang,
1419
00:40:50,366 –> 00:40:50,846
so to speak?
1420
00:40:51,086 –> 00:40:52,046
So what we know,
1421
00:40:52,046 –> 00:40:54,366
this is why I started talking about Christopher Bush.
1422
00:40:55,486 –> 00:40:58,686
He’s the prime suspect for at least Mark Stebbins’s
1423
00:40:58,686 –> 00:40:59,726
murder, the first murder,
1424
00:41:00,526 –> 00:41:02,846
for many other reasons as well as what I said.
1425
00:41:04,046 –> 00:41:05,726
But oddly enough,
1426
00:41:06,886 –> 00:41:09,526
There’s also other things that link other people to
1427
00:41:09,526 –> 00:41:10,126
the murder,
1428
00:41:10,446 –> 00:41:11,486
okay, like DNA.
1429
00:41:11,766 –> 00:41:13,006
Are they linked to Bush?
1430
00:41:13,566 –> 00:41:13,926
Yeah, that,
1431
00:41:13,966 –> 00:41:14,446
yes.
1432
00:41:14,606 –> 00:41:16,406
So it’s a group series.
1433
00:41:16,406 –> 00:41:16,686
Yeah.
1434
00:41:16,846 –> 00:41:18,166
Then he’s an international thing.
1435
00:41:18,206 –> 00:41:18,686
Yeah, man.
1436
00:41:18,686 –> 00:41:18,966
Okay.
1437
00:41:19,006 –> 00:41:22,206
So you got like somebody else’s DNA and that guy was
1438
00:41:22,206 –> 00:41:23,166
a fucking pedophile,
1439
00:41:23,326 –> 00:41:25,246
but that DNA was found on Mark Stebbins.
1440
00:41:25,406 –> 00:41:27,166
Okay, so he’s linked to Mark Stebbins.
1441
00:41:27,246 –> 00:41:29,246
Then you got Christopher Bush linked to Mark Stebbins.
1442
00:41:29,326 –> 00:41:31,086
When he gets suicided,
1443
00:41:31,086 –> 00:41:33,326
which was they pretended he got suicided,
1444
00:41:33,646 –> 00:41:34,446
there was a suicide,
1445
00:41:34,446 –> 00:41:36,686
but he was fucking marked and there’s no.
1446
00:41:37,246 –> 00:41:38,046
No, Christopher Bush.
1447
00:41:38,206 –> 00:41:39,326
I know I’m getting off track here.
1448
00:41:39,326 –> 00:41:40,526
Let me back up.
1449
00:41:40,606 –> 00:41:41,286
Let me back up.
1450
00:41:41,646 –> 00:41:45,686
Let me back up and say this motherfucker was one motherfucker.
1451
00:41:45,686 –> 00:41:48,126
I’m going to call them number one and #2 and #3.
1452
00:41:48,766 –> 00:41:51,806
Number one gets linked to Mark Stebbins.
1453
00:41:51,806 –> 00:41:53,366
Number 2 gets linked to Mark Stebbins.
1454
00:41:53,366 –> 00:41:54,886
Number 3 gets linked to Mark Stebbins.
1455
00:41:54,886 –> 00:41:55,886
So you have to start saying,
1456
00:41:55,886 –> 00:41:56,926
forget the names.
1457
00:41:56,926 –> 00:41:57,566
Fuck it all.
1458
00:41:57,726 –> 00:41:59,166
Just say there’s three guys,
1459
00:41:59,406 –> 00:41:59,726
right?
1460
00:41:59,806 –> 00:42:01,806
They’re all linked to the murder of Mark Stebbins.
1461
00:42:02,166 –> 00:42:03,566
So it can’t be one of them.
1462
00:42:03,566 –> 00:42:04,126
It can’t be.
1463
00:42:04,126 –> 00:42:05,326
Again, who’s Mark Stebbins?
1464
00:42:05,326 –> 00:42:05,926
He’s the dead,
1465
00:42:05,966 –> 00:42:06,766
he’s the kid who got,
1466
00:42:06,926 –> 00:42:09,646
he’s the very first Ocon County child killing.
1467
00:42:09,886 –> 00:42:11,886
They’re all connected to him.
1468
00:42:11,966 –> 00:42:12,766
Yeah, man.
1469
00:42:12,966 –> 00:42:13,486
DNA?
1470
00:42:13,646 –> 00:42:16,126
Here’s the DNA.
1471
00:42:16,206 –> 00:42:17,726
There’s 3 sources of DNA.
1472
00:42:18,126 –> 00:42:21,006
One of the sources of DNA goes to a guy who’s still
1473
00:42:21,006 –> 00:42:21,406
alive.
1474
00:42:21,766 –> 00:42:24,446
And he’s in and out of prison at Jackson and other
1475
00:42:24,446 –> 00:42:24,846
places.
1476
00:42:24,926 –> 00:42:27,966
His DNA is found on one of the bodies
1477
00:42:28,486 –> 00:42:30,846
Okay, but his answer to that is,
1478
00:42:30,846 –> 00:42:33,086
well, I was always traveling with Christopher Bush.
1479
00:42:34,606 –> 00:42:37,006
So what the police haven’t done,
1480
00:42:37,006 –> 00:42:39,406
he was a 15 or 16 year old at the time of the killings.
1481
00:42:39,406 –> 00:42:41,726
He was a molestation victim of Christopher Bush.
1482
00:42:42,686 –> 00:42:44,446
He was always in Christopher Bush’s car.
1483
00:42:44,446 –> 00:42:45,446
He was groomed and
1484
00:42:45,886 –> 00:42:48,046
made into some sort of version of an on-again,
1485
00:42:48,046 –> 00:42:49,966
off-again boyfriend of Christopher Bush who was in
1486
00:42:49,966 –> 00:42:50,806
his 20s or something.
1487
00:42:50,806 –> 00:42:52,526
Does he admit to this,
1488
00:42:52,526 –> 00:42:53,486
Jackson prison guy?
1489
00:42:53,566 –> 00:42:55,006
Yeah, he admits to all that.
1490
00:42:55,086 –> 00:42:55,606
Okay, right.
1491
00:42:55,606 –> 00:42:57,486
He says, I don’t know nothing about the killings.
1492
00:42:57,486 –> 00:42:57,886
Right.
1493
00:42:58,046 –> 00:43:00,046
But his DNA was on the fucking body.
1494
00:43:00,806 –> 00:43:01,406
And he says,
1495
00:43:01,406 –> 00:43:03,166
I must have been from Christopher Bush’s car.
1496
00:43:03,366 –> 00:43:04,606
Let me not get sidetracked though,
1497
00:43:04,606 –> 00:43:05,886
because it’s a fucking rabbit hole.
1498
00:43:06,046 –> 00:43:06,846
The point is,
1499
00:43:07,246 –> 00:43:10,046
Christopher Bush then gets linked to Frank Sheldon.
1500
00:43:10,366 –> 00:43:10,686
How?
1501
00:43:11,566 –> 00:43:12,446
Through police.
1502
00:43:13,166 –> 00:43:14,046
Now, I wasn’t there,
1503
00:43:14,046 –> 00:43:17,486
but the police documents say that Christopher Bush
1504
00:43:17,486 –> 00:43:20,046
was in this company of Frank Sheldon at certain times.
1505
00:43:20,286 –> 00:43:20,846
They also,
1506
00:43:20,846 –> 00:43:25,566
in the same documents where they say they found shit
1507
00:43:25,566 –> 00:43:26,606
on Frank Sheldon,
1508
00:43:27,006 –> 00:43:27,406
you know,
1509
00:43:27,886 –> 00:43:29,606
like here’s a document on Frank Sheldon,
1510
00:43:29,606 –> 00:43:30,526
like a police narrative.
1511
00:43:30,846 –> 00:43:32,246
In that same document,
1512
00:43:32,246 –> 00:43:34,686
or an evidence catalog or whatever,
1513
00:43:34,686 –> 00:43:35,646
in that same thing,
1514
00:43:35,806 –> 00:43:37,406
they talk about Christopher Bush’s,
1515
00:43:37,646 –> 00:43:37,886
they say,
1516
00:43:37,886 –> 00:43:38,926
oh, and by the way,
1517
00:43:38,926 –> 00:43:41,806
we also found 18 reels of child pornography in Christopher
1518
00:43:41,806 –> 00:43:43,046
Bush’s cabin or whatever.
1519
00:43:43,326 –> 00:43:46,606
But they’re talking about Christopher Bush in the same
1520
00:43:46,606 –> 00:43:48,886
documents that are supposed to be focused on Frank
1521
00:43:48,886 –> 00:43:49,406
Sheldon.
1522
00:43:49,966 –> 00:43:51,326
And so there’s that.
1523
00:43:52,606 –> 00:43:53,726
And then we have other,
1524
00:43:53,886 –> 00:43:54,646
and this is the thing,
1525
00:43:54,646 –> 00:43:55,966
this is what we’re trying to do right now.
1526
00:43:56,326 –> 00:43:56,766
I’m going,
1527
00:43:56,886 –> 00:43:57,726
I’m going around.
1528
00:43:58,246 –> 00:43:58,606
Basically,
1529
00:43:58,606 –> 00:43:59,966
I’ve spent nine months writing this book.
1530
00:43:59,966 –> 00:44:02,206
It’s probably done in a month or two.
1531
00:44:03,406 –> 00:44:06,686
And we’re traveling around with the film crew and we’re
1532
00:44:06,686 –> 00:44:09,166
interviewing victims of Frank Sheldon.
1533
00:44:09,326 –> 00:44:11,326
We just, it’s horrific shit.
1534
00:44:11,326 –> 00:44:12,206
It’s huge.
1535
00:44:12,366 –> 00:44:13,326
We spent three hours.
1536
00:44:13,526 –> 00:44:16,566
interviewing a victim of Frank Sheldon the other day.
1537
00:44:16,566 –> 00:44:19,846
We spent another hour interviewing a victim of whatever.
1538
00:44:19,846 –> 00:44:21,966
We’re really doing the work.
1539
00:44:22,006 –> 00:44:23,846
And you’re going over to Europe and everything.
1540
00:44:24,166 –> 00:44:27,526
Oh yeah, these fucking guys just came back from overseas
1541
00:44:27,526 –> 00:44:27,926
in India,
1542
00:44:27,926 –> 00:44:28,166
man.
1543
00:44:28,566 –> 00:44:30,646
Dude, so you’re doing a book and a series.
1544
00:44:30,646 –> 00:44:32,566
Yeah, and here’s the thing.
1545
00:44:32,606 –> 00:44:34,006
And you just finished an Idaho book.
1546
00:44:34,486 –> 00:44:35,366
Yeah, but here’s the thing,
1547
00:44:35,366 –> 00:44:35,606
man.
1548
00:44:36,126 –> 00:44:37,766
I’m actually done after this.
1549
00:44:37,926 –> 00:44:38,486
I’m done.
1550
00:44:38,486 –> 00:44:40,006
I’m going to law school in August.
1551
00:44:41,286 –> 00:44:41,926
I feel like
1552
00:44:43,926 –> 00:44:46,006
This is this people say you’re true.
1553
00:44:46,486 –> 00:44:49,126
I appreciate you saying renowned crime writer or true
1554
00:44:49,126 –> 00:44:50,086
crime writer or whatever,
1555
00:44:50,086 –> 00:44:50,406
man.
1556
00:44:50,646 –> 00:44:51,606
But I did this.
1557
00:44:51,606 –> 00:44:52,446
was an accident.
1558
00:44:52,726 –> 00:44:54,246
I don’t want to do this,
1559
00:44:54,246 –> 00:44:54,646
man.
1560
00:44:54,726 –> 00:44:57,326
I don’t want to fucking talk about child pornographers.
1561
00:44:57,326 –> 00:44:59,886
I don’t want to be on your show talking to these guys
1562
00:44:59,886 –> 00:45:02,246
about this bullshit because it’s the darkest shit
1563
00:45:02,246 –> 00:45:02,646
in the world.
1564
00:45:02,646 –> 00:45:04,046
And that’s how and on the one hand,
1565
00:45:04,166 –> 00:45:05,286
that’s how that shit slides.
1566
00:45:05,286 –> 00:45:06,166
But we need you.
1567
00:45:06,966 –> 00:45:07,886
Or it continues.
1568
00:45:07,886 –> 00:45:08,366
They need you,
1569
00:45:08,366 –> 00:45:08,646
bro.
1570
00:45:08,646 –> 00:45:10,566
I got 500 followers.
1571
00:45:10,646 –> 00:45:11,446
They need people with,
1572
00:45:11,766 –> 00:45:12,566
like Colin,
1573
00:45:12,806 –> 00:45:14,446
who’s got 5 million,
1574
00:45:14,446 –> 00:45:15,966
or you, who’s got the whole world.
1575
00:45:15,966 –> 00:45:18,486
Like, I read Detroit,
1576
00:45:19,166 –> 00:45:20,246
American Autopsy.
1577
00:45:20,566 –> 00:45:22,086
I read Shit Show.
1578
00:45:23,126 –> 00:45:24,806
And I have to say,
1579
00:45:25,846 –> 00:45:30,006
the only reason I’m writing this book is because I’m
1580
00:45:30,486 –> 00:45:31,046
doing it.
1581
00:45:31,046 –> 00:45:32,166
We’re self-funding it.
1582
00:45:32,646 –> 00:45:33,846
And I don’t,
1583
00:45:33,846 –> 00:45:35,766
I’m not working for a big publisher or whatever.
1584
00:45:36,166 –> 00:45:38,766
And I get to write it however the fuck I want.
1585
00:45:39,286 –> 00:45:41,686
And that was inspired by reading your books because
1586
00:45:41,686 –> 00:45:42,166
I thought,
1587
00:45:42,566 –> 00:45:46,246
wait, I’m this guy who sits in Charlie Duff’s chair
1588
00:45:46,366 –> 00:45:47,606
while he’s smoking a cigarette.
1589
00:45:48,006 –> 00:45:52,566
And I’m just like saying shit that I’m passionate about.
1590
00:45:53,366 –> 00:45:56,206
The last book I wrote was very tightly controlled by
1591
00:45:57,606 –> 00:45:58,726
all kinds of things.
1592
00:45:59,166 –> 00:45:59,846
And I just thought,
1593
00:45:59,846 –> 00:46:01,286
I got to do one book that’s me.
1594
00:46:02,166 –> 00:46:03,686
And then I’m out,
1595
00:46:04,046 –> 00:46:06,366
And so that’s what I’m doing.
1596
00:46:07,206 –> 00:46:08,166
I get weird shit.
1597
00:46:08,166 –> 00:46:08,926
I get weird shit,
1598
00:46:08,926 –> 00:46:10,406
brother, from people.
1599
00:46:10,406 –> 00:46:11,286
And this is part of it.
1600
00:46:11,446 –> 00:46:12,646
I don’t like the drama.
1601
00:46:12,966 –> 00:46:14,646
I don’t like none of this shit.
1602
00:46:14,806 –> 00:46:17,686
I got a fucking Instagram message from Corey Williams,
1603
00:46:17,686 –> 00:46:19,846
the top cop on the Oakland County child killer case,
1604
00:46:20,006 –> 00:46:22,806
sends me an Instagram message at 1130 at night in
1605
00:46:22,806 –> 00:46:25,366
Idaho, which is 130 in the morning in Detroit.
1606
00:46:26,646 –> 00:46:27,846
Fucking 9 typos,
1607
00:46:27,846 –> 00:46:29,246
obviously drunk or something,
1608
00:46:29,686 –> 00:46:31,446
telling me I’m a fucking asshole,
1609
00:46:31,686 –> 00:46:32,206
and that I,
1610
00:46:32,206 –> 00:46:35,846
and that I fucking am following this case for the
1611
00:46:35,846 –> 00:46:36,566
money and shit,
1612
00:46:36,726 –> 00:46:37,766
this motherfucker.
1613
00:46:38,166 –> 00:46:40,166
I’ve had no money my whole life.
1614
00:46:40,326 –> 00:46:41,206
I’m not following this kid.
1615
00:46:41,206 –> 00:46:41,926
It’s been 20.
1616
00:46:42,166 –> 00:46:44,006
I started this shit in 2005,
1617
00:46:44,086 –> 00:46:45,446
20 fucking years ago.
1618
00:46:45,606 –> 00:46:48,806
And I got cops drunk messaging me saying I’m in it
1619
00:46:48,806 –> 00:46:49,446
for the money.
1620
00:46:49,606 –> 00:46:50,006
Meanwhile,
1621
00:46:50,006 –> 00:46:52,886
the same cops in charge of this case had fucking,
1622
00:46:52,886 –> 00:46:54,886
what do they make now at 20 years in as a cop?
1623
00:46:54,886 –> 00:46:55,726
100 grand,
1624
00:46:55,726 –> 00:46:56,926
120, 140?
1625
00:46:56,926 –> 00:46:57,966
I don’t fucking know what they make.
1626
00:46:58,166 –> 00:47:00,846
20 years in when you’re up there as a high up detective
1627
00:47:00,846 –> 00:47:01,206
and shit.
1628
00:47:01,686 –> 00:47:02,686
Talk about doing it for the money.
1629
00:47:02,686 –> 00:47:06,246
You got 20 years to solve a fucking case and you don’t?
1630
00:47:07,366 –> 00:47:11,006
I guarantee if I gave you $150,000 a year and said,
1631
00:47:11,006 –> 00:47:14,086
Charlie, your only job for the next 20 years is to
1632
00:47:14,086 –> 00:47:15,846
solve this one fucking murder,
1633
00:47:17,206 –> 00:47:20,006
you’d either solve the murder or you’d end up dead
1634
00:47:20,006 –> 00:47:21,366
before you could get there or something.
1635
00:47:21,366 –> 00:47:23,366
But you certainly wouldn’t be sitting there 20 years
1636
00:47:23,526 –> 00:47:24,006
later going,
1637
00:47:24,006 –> 00:47:25,526
yeah, scratching your head.
1638
00:47:25,526 –> 00:47:26,646
Not only the money,
1639
00:47:26,646 –> 00:47:29,126
but all the police documents in the world at your
1640
00:47:29,126 –> 00:47:29,766
disposal,
1641
00:47:30,166 –> 00:47:32,166
You got the MSP at your fucking disposal.
1642
00:47:32,166 –> 00:47:33,646
You got the FBI at your disposal.
1643
00:47:33,646 –> 00:47:34,646
You got crime labs.
1644
00:47:34,646 –> 00:47:36,006
You got DNA testers.
1645
00:47:36,086 –> 00:47:37,646
You got every witness in the fucking world.
1646
00:47:37,846 –> 00:47:39,686
You got subpoena power,
1647
00:47:39,686 –> 00:47:40,246
arrest power.
1648
00:47:40,566 –> 00:47:42,166
Yeah, and I get a drunk message.
1649
00:47:42,166 –> 00:47:43,766
I get a drunk message in the middle of the fucking
1650
00:47:43,766 –> 00:47:46,006
night from the top cop on this case saying I’m in
1651
00:47:46,006 –> 00:47:46,726
it for the money.
1652
00:47:46,806 –> 00:47:48,086
I’ll show you my fucking taxes,
1653
00:47:48,086 –> 00:47:48,406
dude.
1654
00:47:48,566 –> 00:47:50,246
I made like 45 grand last year,
1655
00:47:50,246 –> 00:47:50,806
if that.
1656
00:47:50,966 –> 00:47:53,286
Like, so my point is,
1657
00:47:54,326 –> 00:47:56,486
I don’t want any part of this shit anymore because
1658
00:47:56,486 –> 00:47:58,326
now I’m getting heat from the cops that worked this
1659
00:47:58,326 –> 00:47:58,806
case.
1660
00:47:58,966 –> 00:47:59,286
Like,
1661
00:48:00,166 –> 00:48:00,886
No, man.
1662
00:48:01,046 –> 00:48:02,326
And not only that,
1663
00:48:02,486 –> 00:48:04,406
but the thing about the kill jar,
1664
00:48:04,406 –> 00:48:05,526
I hit on all this shit.
1665
00:48:05,606 –> 00:48:08,166
Not a single person in the police force or anywhere
1666
00:48:08,246 –> 00:48:09,926
else ever messaged me before and said,
1667
00:48:10,086 –> 00:48:11,286
I think you got this wrong.
1668
00:48:11,686 –> 00:48:14,326
You know, they can’t because they know if they fucking
1669
00:48:14,486 –> 00:48:16,686
try to put a suit on me or something,
1670
00:48:16,686 –> 00:48:17,686
then we got discovery.
1671
00:48:17,686 –> 00:48:18,246
Okay, prove it.
1672
00:48:18,246 –> 00:48:21,206
Give me the 4,000 fucking pages that I don’t have then
1673
00:48:21,206 –> 00:48:22,486
that prove that I’m wrong or whatever.
1674
00:48:22,486 –> 00:48:24,886
Give me the 400,000 pages that you’re sitting on.
1675
00:48:25,126 –> 00:48:28,406
They had somebody try to try to FOIA the full case.
1676
00:48:28,726 –> 00:48:29,286
It was like,
1677
00:48:29,926 –> 00:48:31,366
2011 or some shit,
1678
00:48:31,526 –> 00:48:32,446
they sent them what they said,
1679
00:48:32,446 –> 00:48:34,166
Oh, we might be able to do this.
1680
00:48:34,166 –> 00:48:35,126
Do you want us to go ahead?
1681
00:48:35,126 –> 00:48:36,366
Here’s how much it would cost:
1682
00:48:36,366 –> 00:48:36,406
$780,000,
1683
00:48:36,566 –> 00:48:37,926
thirty-six hours,
1684
00:48:39,766 –> 00:48:43,206
thirty-six dollars an hour for administrative costs
1685
00:48:43,206 –> 00:48:44,566
to make the copies and all this shit.
1686
00:48:44,566 –> 00:48:45,926
I bet you could crowdfund that.
1687
00:48:46,006 –> 00:48:46,446
I bet you,
1688
00:48:46,446 –> 00:48:48,006
I bet you could crowdfund it,
1689
00:48:48,086 –> 00:48:48,566
and well,
1690
00:48:48,726 –> 00:48:49,446
but here’s the thing.
1691
00:48:49,446 –> 00:48:50,166
But then they would just say,
1692
00:48:50,166 –> 00:48:51,126
No, we can’t.
1693
00:48:51,126 –> 00:48:53,686
Well, here’s all the documents ain’t going to be there,
1694
00:48:54,006 –> 00:48:55,086
and it’ll be all redacted,
1695
00:48:55,126 –> 00:48:55,766
redacted,
1696
00:48:55,966 –> 00:48:57,686
and so it’s the oldest freaking trick.
1697
00:48:57,686 –> 00:48:58,686
So, I’m not trying to like…
1698
00:48:59,086 –> 00:49:02,086
I’m not trying to sweat Corey Williams.
1699
00:49:02,086 –> 00:49:02,766
I’m saying,
1700
00:49:03,206 –> 00:49:05,646
look, I don’t even know.
1701
00:49:05,806 –> 00:49:07,526
We’re not accusing Corey Williams of anything,
1702
00:49:07,526 –> 00:49:08,606
just for the record,
1703
00:49:08,606 –> 00:49:10,486
just like just a drunk message.
1704
00:49:10,486 –> 00:49:10,686
Yeah.
1705
00:49:10,686 –> 00:49:12,446
Which I’ll show you if you want.
1706
00:49:12,486 –> 00:49:13,366
Maybe he just can’t,
1707
00:49:13,366 –> 00:49:14,726
maybe he just can’t spell.
1708
00:49:14,806 –> 00:49:15,846
Like, we’ll just say that.
1709
00:49:15,926 –> 00:49:17,606
And, but there’s hostility that’s,
1710
00:49:18,206 –> 00:49:18,766
and it’s like,
1711
00:49:18,766 –> 00:49:19,926
let me do this.
1712
00:49:20,326 –> 00:49:22,006
Not accusing the man of anything,
1713
00:49:22,406 –> 00:49:23,446
not even being drunk.
1714
00:49:23,446 –> 00:49:24,006
It is.
1715
00:49:24,726 –> 00:49:28,166
There’s just heat and hostility surrounding.
1716
00:49:29,126 –> 00:49:31,366
the whole and nothing but the truth of this thing,
1717
00:49:31,366 –> 00:49:31,686
right?
1718
00:49:32,006 –> 00:49:33,046
We’ll do it that way.
1719
00:49:33,206 –> 00:49:34,886
Yes, and I don’t want any part of it,
1720
00:49:34,886 –> 00:49:35,286
man.
1721
00:49:35,446 –> 00:49:36,326
But you got to finish it.
1722
00:49:36,326 –> 00:49:37,206
That’s what you’re here for.
1723
00:49:37,286 –> 00:49:38,726
So what are we doing this afternoon?
1724
00:49:39,526 –> 00:49:40,486
What do you need me for it?
1725
00:49:40,966 –> 00:49:41,886
Well, I mean,
1726
00:49:41,886 –> 00:49:46,086
you have particular insight into the political arena
1727
00:49:46,086 –> 00:49:46,846
here in Detroit,
1728
00:49:46,846 –> 00:49:48,566
and I thought we could walk around a little bit and
1729
00:49:48,566 –> 00:49:50,166
talk about that or drive around a little bit.
1730
00:49:50,166 –> 00:49:51,366
We hear you got a cool car.
1731
00:49:51,606 –> 00:49:53,286
We do what I call a drive and jive,
1732
00:49:53,486 –> 00:49:55,646
where we put you in the car for an hour.
1733
00:49:55,686 –> 00:49:57,246
We put you in the car for an hour,
1734
00:49:57,246 –> 00:49:58,486
and we get some
1735
00:49:58,886 –> 00:50:00,646
some insight into maybe what we don’t know.
1736
00:50:01,446 –> 00:50:03,326
Maybe I’m up here talking shit about things I don’t
1737
00:50:03,326 –> 00:50:04,006
know anything about,
1738
00:50:04,006 –> 00:50:04,206
you know,
1739
00:50:04,206 –> 00:50:05,686
and that’s very fair to say.
1740
00:50:05,686 –> 00:50:07,686
Like, I’m literally just shooting from the hip.
1741
00:50:07,686 –> 00:50:08,566
I do not know.
1742
00:50:08,566 –> 00:50:09,366
Looking for the truth.
1743
00:50:09,526 –> 00:50:10,166
Looking for the truth.
1744
00:50:10,166 –> 00:50:12,566
Like, and I have no journalism degree.
1745
00:50:12,726 –> 00:50:13,686
I never studied,
1746
00:50:13,726 –> 00:50:15,766
in fact, I went to one journalism class at Michigan
1747
00:50:15,766 –> 00:50:16,086
State.
1748
00:50:16,246 –> 00:50:18,246
I saw all these people that they were clean.
1749
00:50:19,126 –> 00:50:20,886
and they were career oriented.
1750
00:50:21,046 –> 00:50:22,006
I was trying to be a poet.
1751
00:50:22,806 –> 00:50:25,406
I was terrified of those people and I dropped out of
1752
00:50:25,406 –> 00:50:27,326
my journalism class because I just couldn’t fit in.
1753
00:50:27,326 –> 00:50:28,246
I didn’t know the score.
1754
00:50:28,486 –> 00:50:29,206
I have no,
1755
00:50:30,486 –> 00:50:30,886
people say,
1756
00:50:30,886 –> 00:50:33,926
well, have you vetted that source or vetted that source?
1757
00:50:33,926 –> 00:50:36,566
Like, I’m not even saying I’ve vetted all my sources.
1758
00:50:36,646 –> 00:50:37,366
I’m just saying,
1759
00:50:37,766 –> 00:50:39,486
I talked to a guy out here and he said this.
1760
00:50:39,486 –> 00:50:41,246
When you talk to a guy on the street in front of his
1761
00:50:41,246 –> 00:50:41,846
burning house,
1762
00:50:42,046 –> 00:50:43,606
do you have to vet him first before you?
1763
00:50:44,326 –> 00:50:44,966
roll the tape,
1764
00:50:45,206 –> 00:50:48,206
like I’m not trying to say this is the 100,000%
1765
00:50:48,206 –> 00:50:48,966
truth.
1766
00:50:49,126 –> 00:50:51,886
What I am saying though is that it’s the truth as it’s
1767
00:50:51,886 –> 00:50:54,206
been told to me or as the documents say or as the
1768
00:50:54,206 –> 00:50:54,566
whatever.
1769
00:50:54,566 –> 00:50:55,606
If I’m missing something,
1770
00:50:55,766 –> 00:50:56,566
fucking tell me.
1771
00:50:56,726 –> 00:51:00,246
And I might be missing something politically or about
1772
00:51:00,246 –> 00:51:03,326
the workings of prosecution and shit like that.
1773
00:51:03,326 –> 00:51:04,646
And this, you know,
1774
00:51:04,646 –> 00:51:06,806
I just thought we’re coming to Detroit.
1775
00:51:06,806 –> 00:51:07,926
We talked to George Hunter.
1776
00:51:09,686 –> 00:51:10,166
He’s great,
1777
00:51:10,166 –> 00:51:10,326
man.
1778
00:51:10,326 –> 00:51:11,126
He’s such a great guy.
1779
00:51:11,126 –> 00:51:13,366
That dude grew up in the Cats Corridor during this
1780
00:51:13,366 –> 00:51:13,686
time.
1781
00:51:13,686 –> 00:51:15,206
He knew these pedophiles.
1782
00:51:15,286 –> 00:51:17,046
Yeah, and I looked at his book,
1783
00:51:17,046 –> 00:51:18,206
Monsters in the Corridor.
1784
00:51:18,206 –> 00:51:18,886
And it’s right here.
1785
00:51:19,366 –> 00:51:19,846
Oh, awesome.
1786
00:51:19,846 –> 00:51:20,086
Yeah.
1787
00:51:20,086 –> 00:51:20,486
And it was,
1788
00:51:20,486 –> 00:51:21,366
let’s pitch that there.
1789
00:51:21,806 –> 00:51:22,126
Exactly.
1790
00:51:22,126 –> 00:51:23,126
Monsters in the Corridor,
1791
00:51:23,126 –> 00:51:23,926
George Hunter.
1792
00:51:24,006 –> 00:51:26,166
Yeah, there’s a lot of good information in that book.
1793
00:51:26,246 –> 00:51:28,086
And you can tell that it’s like,
1794
00:51:28,086 –> 00:51:30,166
he didn’t write that book to make it killing.
1795
00:51:30,246 –> 00:51:31,326
I think he self-published it,
1796
00:51:31,446 –> 00:51:32,246
but it’s like,
1797
00:51:32,486 –> 00:51:33,286
because he had to.
1798
00:51:33,286 –> 00:51:34,966
He had to get it out.
1799
00:51:34,966 –> 00:51:35,566
He had to,
1800
00:51:35,566 –> 00:51:35,846
yeah.
1801
00:51:36,086 –> 00:51:37,846
So, and it’s like,
1802
00:51:37,846 –> 00:51:38,526
so we walked around
1803
00:51:38,966 –> 00:51:41,846
a couple of hours,
1804
00:51:41,886 –> 00:51:43,366
and that was that great beagle,
1805
00:51:43,366 –> 00:51:44,246
that dog of his.
1806
00:51:44,806 –> 00:51:45,206
We talked.
1807
00:51:45,206 –> 00:51:46,406
It comes back to the Beagles.
1808
00:51:46,406 –> 00:51:48,646
I talked to Scott Bernstein on the phone.
1809
00:51:48,646 –> 00:51:49,846
We didn’t interview him for the show,
1810
00:51:49,846 –> 00:51:50,966
but I talked to him on the phone.
1811
00:51:52,886 –> 00:51:54,086
You know, I just thought we’re coming to Detroit.
1812
00:51:54,086 –> 00:51:55,206
We’ve got to talk to Charlie Duff.
1813
00:51:55,206 –> 00:51:56,726
I think maybe he’ll answer my message.
1814
00:51:56,726 –> 00:51:58,326
So I texted him,
1815
00:51:59,366 –> 00:51:59,926
texted you,
1816
00:51:59,966 –> 00:52:00,206
and
1817
00:52:01,126 –> 00:52:04,326
But you got some busy beaver hipster working for you
1818
00:52:04,326 –> 00:52:04,806
too, man.
1819
00:52:04,806 –> 00:52:06,566
If you know the LA type guy.
1820
00:52:07,566 –> 00:52:08,166
Trick shifting,
1821
00:52:08,166 –> 00:52:08,486
Brian.
1822
00:52:09,206 –> 00:52:09,886
Specifically,
1823
00:52:09,886 –> 00:52:10,686
we’ll get back to me.
1824
00:52:10,846 –> 00:52:11,606
I’m just like,
1825
00:52:11,646 –> 00:52:12,446
I talked to you guy.
1826
00:52:12,446 –> 00:52:14,566
I talked to the guy and it’s all going to be good.
1827
00:52:14,566 –> 00:52:16,246
Yeah, that’s what that’s the thing is they’re telling
1828
00:52:16,246 –> 00:52:16,646
me.
1829
00:52:17,046 –> 00:52:19,366
This is why you have a guy because it’s like,
1830
00:52:19,366 –> 00:52:20,326
I can’t do that shit.
1831
00:52:20,486 –> 00:52:21,526
I don’t know how to fucking.
1832
00:52:21,966 –> 00:52:22,646
press people.
1833
00:52:22,966 –> 00:52:24,006
I don’t know how to,
1834
00:52:24,006 –> 00:52:25,046
like even just little press,
1835
00:52:25,046 –> 00:52:25,446
George said,
1836
00:52:25,446 –> 00:52:26,646
can we do it at 5?
1837
00:52:26,646 –> 00:52:27,126
And I was like,
1838
00:52:27,606 –> 00:52:28,726
oh shit, I think they want to do it at 3,
1839
00:52:28,726 –> 00:52:29,526
but I’m not going to tell them.
1840
00:52:29,686 –> 00:52:31,726
And so can you get a hold of George?
1841
00:52:31,726 –> 00:52:32,886
Because I’m not that guy.
1842
00:52:32,966 –> 00:52:33,606
I’ll just say,
1843
00:52:33,606 –> 00:52:34,686
sure, whatever you want.
1844
00:52:34,766 –> 00:52:36,966
Because I just don’t want to press people.
1845
00:52:37,046 –> 00:52:39,166
But you guys are good.
1846
00:52:39,166 –> 00:52:40,486
I mean, they want to work with you.
1847
00:52:40,486 –> 00:52:41,086
They’re not like,
1848
00:52:41,086 –> 00:52:41,886
it’s got to be 3 o’clock.
1849
00:52:41,886 –> 00:52:42,206
And I’m like,
1850
00:52:42,206 –> 00:52:43,126
I don’t give a fuck.
1851
00:52:43,126 –> 00:52:44,326
I’m busy at 3,
1852
00:52:44,326 –> 00:52:44,566
man.
1853
00:52:45,686 –> 00:52:47,206
It’s raining and I want a knish.
1854
00:52:50,206 –> 00:52:52,286
But I said a lot of shit here that’s probably going
1855
00:52:52,286 –> 00:52:52,966
to come back to haunt me.
1856
00:52:52,966 –> 00:52:53,846
But I mean,
1857
00:52:53,846 –> 00:52:54,646
the fact is,
1858
00:52:54,726 –> 00:53:00,046
all of all of what I have said is true to the best
1859
00:53:00,046 –> 00:53:00,886
of my knowledge,
1860
00:53:01,366 –> 00:53:01,926
your honor.
1861
00:53:02,206 –> 00:53:02,806
So I mean,
1862
00:53:03,046 –> 00:53:07,686
the kill jar that’s that came out in 18.
1863
00:53:07,886 –> 00:53:10,726
I mean, you haven’t been sued.
1864
00:53:10,726 –> 00:53:12,486
You haven’t been questioned.
1865
00:53:13,806 –> 00:53:15,126
That’s seven years ago.
1866
00:53:15,486 –> 00:53:16,326
It’s interesting.
1867
00:53:16,486 –> 00:53:20,166
I mean, you’re doing yourself a disservice.
1868
00:53:20,886 –> 00:53:22,086
You do do the work.
1869
00:53:22,246 –> 00:53:24,286
Like, he’s asking,
1870
00:53:24,286 –> 00:53:25,406
did you reach out to the victim?
1871
00:53:25,406 –> 00:53:26,446
Did you reach out to the family?
1872
00:53:26,446 –> 00:53:27,046
Oh, yes, indeed,
1873
00:53:27,046 –> 00:53:27,326
I did.
1874
00:53:27,326 –> 00:53:28,926
Did you cross-check it with the documents?
1875
00:53:28,926 –> 00:53:29,686
Oh, yes, I did.
1876
00:53:29,846 –> 00:53:32,246
Did you go to Europe and check with it?
1877
00:53:32,246 –> 00:53:33,126
Oh, yes, I did.
1878
00:53:33,366 –> 00:53:35,126
There’s not more that you can do.
1879
00:53:35,526 –> 00:53:35,686
Yeah.
1880
00:53:35,686 –> 00:53:36,406
You know what I mean?
1881
00:53:36,566 –> 00:53:36,806
Yeah.
1882
00:53:36,886 –> 00:53:39,966
It’s just making a leap that doesn’t exist.
1883
00:53:39,966 –> 00:53:41,526
It’s very easy.
1884
00:53:41,846 –> 00:53:43,166
Journalism is very easy.
1885
00:53:43,166 –> 00:53:44,966
It’s just like being an investigator or a lawyer.
1886
00:53:45,366 –> 00:53:48,726
But then there’s what people lack that you do have.
1887
00:53:49,326 –> 00:53:52,486
didn’t fit in because it’s corporate journalism J-school,
1888
00:53:52,806 –> 00:53:53,846
is you got heart,
1889
00:53:54,406 –> 00:53:54,646
you know,
1890
00:53:54,686 –> 00:53:55,766
you got a point of view.
1891
00:53:55,926 –> 00:53:58,406
I remember when I was in journalism school and I was
1892
00:53:58,406 –> 00:53:59,126
gonna drop out.
1893
00:53:59,526 –> 00:54:01,246
I’m like, this is complete horseshit,
1894
00:54:01,246 –> 00:54:02,086
I’m not doing this.
1895
00:54:02,646 –> 00:54:04,326
You know, I was like 28 years old.
1896
00:54:04,326 –> 00:54:05,686
I’m like, I thought it’d be different.
1897
00:54:06,326 –> 00:54:09,446
And then my mentor,
1898
00:54:09,446 –> 00:54:10,406
Lydia Chavez,
1899
00:54:10,406 –> 00:54:13,446
she, after you do fire on the 700 block and they teach
1900
00:54:13,446 –> 00:54:14,406
you how to do documents,
1901
00:54:14,806 –> 00:54:15,686
she came in with a,
1902
00:54:16,406 –> 00:54:19,486
series written by a guy named Barry Birak and it was
1903
00:54:19,486 –> 00:54:24,486
in the height of the crack blizzard in New York and
1904
00:54:24,486 –> 00:54:26,646
He hung out with crackheads and he lived in the the
1905
00:54:26,646 –> 00:54:28,846
abandoned tenements and you know went with him to
1906
00:54:28,846 –> 00:54:32,086
go get help and you know even in the middle of it
1907
00:54:32,246 –> 00:54:37,486
as as the the writer puts himself in it and he’s Wants
1908
00:54:37,486 –> 00:54:37,926
to try it.
1909
00:54:38,006 –> 00:54:38,926
He wants to try crack.
1910
00:54:38,926 –> 00:54:39,966
What’s this all about,
1911
00:54:40,006 –> 00:54:40,206
you know,
1912
00:54:40,206 –> 00:54:46,006
and then there’s just a a passage About his
1913
00:54:47,126 –> 00:54:48,566
struggle, you know what I’m saying,
1914
00:54:48,566 –> 00:54:49,126
with this.
1915
00:54:49,526 –> 00:54:52,566
And I got this and you got the first person in it.
1916
00:54:52,966 –> 00:54:53,366
And I said,
1917
00:54:53,366 –> 00:54:56,886
this, this is what I’m talking about,
1918
00:54:56,886 –> 00:54:57,086
you know,
1919
00:54:57,086 –> 00:54:58,486
and it changed my whole life.
1920
00:54:58,486 –> 00:54:59,926
Now, fast forward,
1921
00:55:00,566 –> 00:55:01,206
they got me,
1922
00:55:01,326 –> 00:55:02,086
I don’t fit in,
1923
00:55:02,086 –> 00:55:02,886
I’m at the New York Times,
1924
00:55:02,886 –> 00:55:03,486
I got lucky.
1925
00:55:03,486 –> 00:55:05,526
It’s the only offer I got for an internship and they
1926
00:55:05,526 –> 00:55:06,646
stick me out in Queens.
1927
00:55:06,806 –> 00:55:07,606
Nobody wants to be,
1928
00:55:07,606 –> 00:55:08,846
everybody wants to be in Manhattan,
1929
00:55:08,846 –> 00:55:09,046
you know.
1930
00:55:10,046 –> 00:55:12,326
And I’m working and I’m chugging and I’m cranking them.
1931
00:55:13,206 –> 00:55:13,606
And
1932
00:55:14,606 –> 00:55:16,806
A new guy that they hired walks in.
1933
00:55:17,526 –> 00:55:19,366
His wife’s a bigwig there and they’re waiting for the
1934
00:55:19,366 –> 00:55:20,806
India Bureau to open up.
1935
00:55:20,806 –> 00:55:22,326
So they stick him in Queens,
1936
00:55:22,566 –> 00:55:22,886
right?
1937
00:55:22,926 –> 00:55:26,246
And it’s Barry fucking Burak.
1938
00:55:26,286 –> 00:55:28,046
I’m like, oh my God,
1939
00:55:28,046 –> 00:55:30,006
dude, you don’t know what you mean to me.
1940
00:55:30,006 –> 00:55:34,206
I will carry your bags and life’s just funny circle
1941
00:55:34,206 –> 00:55:34,606
like that.
1942
00:55:34,606 –> 00:55:35,006
So, you know,
1943
00:55:35,006 –> 00:55:35,566
you keep going,
1944
00:55:35,566 –> 00:55:36,246
whatever you need.
1945
00:55:36,246 –> 00:55:40,806
I’m here to help you get to the truth because not only
1946
00:55:40,886 –> 00:55:42,126
and specifically in Michigan,
1947
00:55:42,126 –> 00:55:43,206
but apparently around the world,
1948
00:55:43,206 –> 00:55:44,246
people want the answer.
1949
00:55:44,686 –> 00:55:47,206
and you’ll give it the best of your ability and nothing
1950
00:55:47,206 –> 00:55:47,606
more.
1951
00:55:48,246 –> 00:55:48,566
Right?
1952
00:55:48,886 –> 00:55:49,686
Yeah, right on there.
1953
00:55:49,686 –> 00:55:49,966
All right,
1954
00:55:49,966 –> 00:55:50,126
man.
1955
00:55:50,126 –> 00:55:50,686
Well spoken.
1956
00:55:50,686 –> 00:55:50,966
All right,
1957
00:55:50,966 –> 00:55:51,326
brother.
1958
00:55:51,326 –> 00:55:52,486
Where are you going to law school?
1959
00:55:53,206 –> 00:55:54,086
University of Idaho,
1960
00:55:54,086 –> 00:55:56,206
where these kids were killed.
1961
00:55:57,366 –> 00:55:58,886
There’s a campus in Boise,
1962
00:55:58,886 –> 00:55:59,686
and that’s where I’ll be.
1963
00:56:00,206 –> 00:56:00,566
That’s awesome.
1964
00:56:00,606 –> 00:56:00,806
All right.
1965
00:56:01,646 –> 00:56:01,846
Right.
1966
00:56:01,926 –> 00:56:03,526
And we put him in the trunk.
1967
00:56:04,886 –> 00:56:05,486
We’re driving around.
1968
00:56:05,486 –> 00:56:05,926
Those legs.
1969
00:56:06,046 –> 00:56:06,886
God, those.
1970
00:56:07,126 –> 00:56:07,926
I mean, I don’t.
1971
00:56:07,926 –> 00:56:08,726
I just met this guy.
1972
00:56:09,206 –> 00:56:09,526
I know.
1973
00:56:09,566 –> 00:56:10,046
He looks like.
1974
00:56:10,406 –> 00:56:11,206
But I know.
1975
00:56:11,566 –> 00:56:12,726
brown turkey leg.
1976
00:56:12,726 –> 00:56:13,646
I was just going to say,
1977
00:56:13,646 –> 00:56:14,366
I know he’s somebody.
1978
00:56:14,366 –> 00:56:15,286
I don’t know what’s going on.
1979
00:56:15,326 –> 00:56:16,326
I don’t know who he is,
1980
00:56:16,326 –> 00:56:17,766
but he owns something around here.
1981
00:56:19,286 –> 00:56:20,886
That’s the Tommy Hearns a politic.
1982
00:56:21,286 –> 00:56:22,006
That’s the hitman.
1983
00:56:22,246 –> 00:56:23,526
Well, I was going to call him a cardi.
1984
00:56:24,486 –> 00:56:24,646
yeah.
1985
00:56:24,726 –> 00:56:26,486
like a 97 won the ticket.
1986
00:56:26,886 –> 00:56:27,766
One of their guys,
1987
00:56:27,766 –> 00:56:28,846
he’s overdoing it.
1988
00:56:28,846 –> 00:56:29,286
It’s like,
1989
00:56:29,406 –> 00:56:30,406
he’s got brackets.
1990
00:56:30,646 –> 00:56:33,286
The toughest athlete in the history of Detroit,
1991
00:56:33,606 –> 00:56:33,846
right?
1992
00:56:34,086 –> 00:56:36,326
Just straight up bar fight.
1993
00:56:36,766 –> 00:56:37,446
And so, you know,
1994
00:56:37,486 –> 00:56:38,646
it’s, they’re overdoing.
1995
00:56:38,646 –> 00:56:40,326
It’s one bracket,
1996
00:56:40,406 –> 00:56:43,126
this bracket right now that they’re pitching is Adamakinsu
1997
00:56:43,126 –> 00:56:44,086
versus Ty Cobb.
1998
00:56:44,086 –> 00:56:45,206
Oh shit, get out of here.
1999
00:56:45,206 –> 00:56:46,246
I’m like, what is this?
2000
00:56:46,246 –> 00:56:47,526
It’s Probert McCarty,
2001
00:56:47,526 –> 00:56:48,046
period.
2002
00:56:48,646 –> 00:56:49,646
Well, I would ask McCarty.
2003
00:56:49,646 –> 00:56:51,206
I bet you McCarty wouldn’t even say it.
2004
00:56:51,526 –> 00:56:53,206
Because we’re missing the obvious.
2005
00:56:53,886 –> 00:56:54,886
Like Joe Lewis.
2006
00:56:55,366 –> 00:56:55,526
Yeah.
2007
00:56:55,766 –> 00:56:57,286
Okay, and he’s from Detroit,
2008
00:56:57,526 –> 00:56:57,806
right?
2009
00:56:58,486 –> 00:57:00,646
And the guy that would beat Joe Lewis’s ass,
2010
00:57:00,646 –> 00:57:01,766
in my opinion,
2011
00:57:02,326 –> 00:57:03,366
from Detroit also,
2012
00:57:03,366 –> 00:57:04,806
the only two guys from Detroit,
2013
00:57:05,126 –> 00:57:06,726
is Tommy Hitman Hearns.
2014
00:57:06,726 –> 00:57:07,566
Hearns was my favorite,
2015
00:57:07,566 –> 00:57:07,686
dude.
2016
00:57:07,686 –> 00:57:12,406
The guy got 6 fucking world titles in six weight divisions.
2017
00:57:12,886 –> 00:57:13,086
Badass.
2018
00:57:13,086 –> 00:57:16,526
Tommy fucking Hearns would beat anybody’s ass.
2019
00:57:16,806 –> 00:57:18,246
I bet I met him at a pharmacist.
2020
00:57:18,246 –> 00:57:19,966
What about Marvin Hagler and shit?
2021
00:57:19,966 –> 00:57:20,286
What?
2022
00:57:20,326 –> 00:57:21,166
You’re going to fight?
2023
00:57:21,326 –> 00:57:22,566
Marvin Hagler at a bar?
2024
00:57:23,126 –> 00:57:24,566
I met Hearns at a bar mitzvah.
2025
00:57:24,566 –> 00:57:25,446
Who, Tommy?
2026
00:57:25,686 –> 00:57:26,326
I was 13.
2027
00:57:26,326 –> 00:57:27,886
They had him come in and sign autographs.
2028
00:57:27,886 –> 00:57:30,086
And so I was at a bar mitzvah in Bloomfield Hills.
2029
00:57:30,166 –> 00:57:33,126
I saw him at a Trump rally back last year.
2030
00:57:34,006 –> 00:57:34,486
You did?
2031
00:57:34,526 –> 00:57:36,366
Yeah, he was out there supporting Trump.
2032
00:57:36,486 –> 00:57:37,926
I told him he signed my boots.
2033
00:57:37,966 –> 00:57:38,646
Like I took a boot off.
2034
00:57:38,646 –> 00:57:39,486
I go, Champ,
2035
00:57:39,486 –> 00:57:40,326
will you sign it?
2036
00:57:41,606 –> 00:57:42,486
He’s got the palsy.
2037
00:57:42,566 –> 00:57:43,686
Oh, and his nose is gone,
2038
00:57:43,686 –> 00:57:43,886
man.
2039
00:57:43,886 –> 00:57:46,166
He’s got the palsy and he writes,
2040
00:57:46,886 –> 00:57:47,606
Tommy,
2041
00:57:51,526 –> 00:57:52,326
Hitman, champ.
2042
00:57:52,726 –> 00:57:53,526
Hitman.
2043
00:57:54,726 –> 00:57:55,126
Hearns.
2044
00:57:55,126 –> 00:57:55,606
I’m like, damn,
2045
00:57:55,606 –> 00:57:55,806
man.
2046
00:57:57,206 –> 00:57:59,566
But God, that was the greatest.
2047
00:57:59,566 –> 00:58:01,366
That might have been the greatest fighter of all time,
2048
00:58:01,366 –> 00:58:01,926
dude.
2049
00:58:02,246 –> 00:58:03,806
That arrow was the greatest arrow.
2050
00:58:03,806 –> 00:58:04,246
Wasn’t it?
2051
00:58:04,326 –> 00:58:04,806
Boxing.
2052
00:58:04,806 –> 00:58:06,166
Hagler Hearns.
2053
00:58:06,406 –> 00:58:07,206
Leonard.
2054
00:58:07,206 –> 00:58:07,606
Leonard.
2055
00:58:07,606 –> 00:58:07,766
Yeah.
2056
00:58:08,806 –> 00:58:09,606
Duran.
2057
00:58:10,486 –> 00:58:10,686
Macho.
2058
00:58:10,686 –> 00:58:10,886
Macho.
2059
00:58:10,886 –> 00:58:11,606
Camacho.
2060
00:58:12,006 –> 00:58:12,326
Fuck.
2061
00:58:12,566 –> 00:58:13,046
That guy.
2062
00:58:13,286 –> 00:58:14,726
Six weight classes.
2063
00:58:14,926 –> 00:58:15,326
Amazing.
2064
00:58:17,246 –> 00:58:18,246
That’s all I got to say.
2065
00:58:18,286 –> 00:58:18,646
I mean,
2066
00:58:19,966 –> 00:58:21,126
And Dominican sue.
2067
00:58:21,366 –> 00:58:22,246
Tiny Cobb.
2068
00:58:22,726 –> 00:58:24,486
I don’t, if you ask McCarty,
2069
00:58:24,486 –> 00:58:26,166
you think you could beat Tommy Hearns his ass?
2070
00:58:27,166 –> 00:58:28,406
He’d go maybe on skates.
2071
00:58:29,366 –> 00:58:29,766
On ice, yeah.
2072
00:58:29,926 –> 00:58:31,726
Don’t take any shit away from McCarty,
2073
00:58:31,726 –> 00:58:33,126
and he’s a bad motherfucker,
2074
00:58:33,126 –> 00:58:33,366
man.
2075
00:58:33,926 –> 00:58:35,366
So anyway,
2076
00:58:35,686 –> 00:58:36,326
welcome home.
2077
00:58:36,326 –> 00:58:37,846
Let’s wrap it up and let’s go do the bit.
2078
00:58:37,926 –> 00:58:38,406
Yeah, thank you,
2079
00:58:38,406 –> 00:58:38,646
brother.
2080
00:58:38,646 –> 00:58:39,246
Thanks for coming,
2081
00:58:39,246 –> 00:58:39,446
dude.
2082
00:58:39,446 –> 00:58:40,326
All right,
2083
00:58:40,646 –> 00:58:41,366
see you next week.
00:00:00,480 –> 00:00:01,200
Can’t sleep?
2
00:00:01,440 –> 00:00:02,640
Watch the local news.
3
00:00:02,800 –> 00:00:03,600
Want the news?
4
00:00:03,760 –> 00:00:04,400
No makeup?
5
00:00:04,560 –> 00:00:05,360
No BS?
6
00:00:05,840 –> 00:00:07,120
Give me 75 seconds.
7
00:00:07,280 –> 00:00:09,360
New theory on the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa.
8
00:00:09,520 –> 00:00:12,160
Investigators now believe the disappeared teamster
9
00:00:12,400 –> 00:00:13,040
was kidnapped,
10
00:00:13,200 –> 00:00:14,560
put through a sausage grinder,
11
00:00:14,720 –> 00:00:15,600
and incinerated.
12
00:00:16,000 –> 00:00:18,600
If found, his ashes could be combined with the dirt
13
00:00:18,600 –> 00:00:21,040
from the Northland Mall and buried in Detroit,
14
00:00:21,440 –> 00:00:22,960
next to Mike Duggan’s political career.
15
00:00:22,960 –> 00:00:24,320
And here comes all the bullshit.
16
00:00:24,640 –> 00:00:26,000
Cartel Wolf is on the lam.
17
00:00:26,000 –> 00:00:28,240
Sources say a man with ties to Hezbollah,
18
00:00:28,480 –> 00:00:29,520
who was led into Dearborn,
19
00:00:29,520 –> 00:00:31,280
Michigan under the Biden administration,
20
00:00:31,520 –> 00:00:33,680
despite the fact that he was on the terror watch list,
21
00:00:34,080 –> 00:00:35,200
has tampered with his tether,
22
00:00:35,400 –> 00:00:36,880
his current whereabouts unknown.
23
00:00:37,200 –> 00:00:39,320
Maybe they should check for him in Rashida Tlaib’s
24
00:00:39,320 –> 00:00:39,920
wine cellar.
25
00:00:42,320 –> 00:00:44,920
The Couchsurfing megachurch pastor Solomon Kinloch
26
00:00:45,120 –> 00:00:46,720
got some testifying to do.
27
00:00:47,280 –> 00:00:48,480
He’s got a mansion in the burbs,
28
00:00:48,480 –> 00:00:49,360
a chauffeur on call,
29
00:00:49,520 –> 00:00:51,760
but claims he moved into a Detroit flop house last
30
00:00:51,760 –> 00:00:54,480
year to establish residency in a bid to become the
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00:00:54,480 –> 00:00:55,440
city’s next mayor.
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00:00:55,840 –> 00:00:56,640
But did he really?
33
00:00:56,880 –> 00:00:58,400
Because the suit has now been filed,
34
00:00:58,560 –> 00:01:00,320
claiming the good reverend lied.
35
00:01:00,720 –> 00:01:02,400
Now Kinloch will have to swear to God.
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00:01:02,560 –> 00:01:03,520
Can I get an amen?
37
00:01:03,680 –> 00:01:06,560
You about to make me act a folk up in here.
38
00:01:06,880 –> 00:01:07,520
Meanwhile,
39
00:01:07,520 –> 00:01:08,480
Michigan is imploding.
40
00:01:08,640 –> 00:01:10,960
So where is jet-setting Governor Gretchen Whitmer?
41
00:01:11,440 –> 00:01:14,000
hiding from her $20 million coffee pot scandal.
42
00:01:14,000 –> 00:01:16,880
That’s where maybe they should look for her and Rashida
43
00:01:16,880 –> 00:01:17,840
Tlaib’s wine cellar.
44
00:01:19,800 –> 00:01:21,520
And now, some beagles.
45
00:01:32,200 –> 00:01:34,520
Live from downtown Detroit,
46
00:01:34,800 –> 00:01:39,400
it’s the No Bullshit News Hour with my main man,
47
00:01:40,120 –> 00:01:41,280
Charlie Lesdau.
48
00:01:44,640 –> 00:01:45,720
And Karen Dumas.
49
00:01:47,240 –> 00:01:48,240
Assistant breaking this.
50
00:01:48,720 –> 00:01:50,000
Double or bullshit.
51
00:01:50,240 –> 00:01:51,120
Double or bullshit.
52
00:01:51,560 –> 00:01:52,320
I’m Grace Karos,
53
00:01:52,360 –> 00:01:54,640
and I’m third generation of American Coney Island.
54
00:01:55,040 –> 00:01:56,720
People say Detroit’s a comeback city.
55
00:01:56,720 –> 00:01:57,600
I say, where you’ve been?
56
00:01:57,600 –> 00:01:59,280
We’ve been here for over 100 years.
57
00:01:59,760 –> 00:02:01,680
My family’s been here on the same corner,
58
00:02:01,840 –> 00:02:05,080
serving our famous proprietary American Coney Island
59
00:02:05,080 –> 00:02:05,400
hot dog.
60
00:02:06,160 –> 00:02:06,880
So like always,
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00:02:06,880 –> 00:02:07,920
we’re keeping things fresh,
62
00:02:08,080 –> 00:02:09,440
updated, and new.
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00:02:11,680 –> 00:02:13,520
We’d love to have you come downtown and visit us,
64
00:02:13,600 –> 00:02:14,320
but if you can’t,
65
00:02:14,400 –> 00:02:16,640
you can always go to americanconeyisland.com,
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00:02:16,720 –> 00:02:17,560
order a Coney kit,
67
00:02:17,560 –> 00:02:19,280
get it delivered fresh right to your door.
68
00:02:19,960 –> 00:02:22,600
This message of Uplift is brought to you by business
69
00:02:22,600 –> 00:02:24,960
and personal wealth advisor Luke Nowacki,
70
00:02:25,280 –> 00:02:28,200
who reminds you that what does it profit a man to
71
00:02:28,240 –> 00:02:29,360
gain the whole world,
72
00:02:29,520 –> 00:02:31,440
but never enter the kingdom of God?
73
00:02:32,160 –> 00:02:33,200
But while you’re waiting,
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00:02:33,200 –> 00:02:35,840
Nowacki wants you to remember that overreaction is
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00:02:35,840 –> 00:02:37,520
not a sound financial strategy.
76
00:02:37,840 –> 00:02:43,920
So call Luke Nowacki at 248-663-4748 for sound financial
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00:02:44,280 –> 00:02:44,480
advice.
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00:02:45,240 –> 00:02:46,320
when it rains,
79
00:02:46,320 –> 00:02:47,240
the power goes out.
80
00:02:47,240 –> 00:02:48,480
And when the power goes out,
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00:02:48,480 –> 00:02:49,480
the internet goes out.
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00:02:49,480 –> 00:02:50,480
When the internet goes out,
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00:02:50,480 –> 00:02:53,680
I call my friend Matt and Bernie at XG Service Group.
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00:02:53,840 –> 00:02:55,680
Look at Bernie here on his hands and knees,
85
00:02:55,920 –> 00:02:57,280
giving it everything he’s got.
86
00:02:57,760 –> 00:02:59,040
Look at that man crack.
87
00:02:59,280 –> 00:03:00,160
So busy.
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00:03:00,800 –> 00:03:01,840
He forgot to wear a belt.
89
00:03:01,840 –> 00:03:03,920
There’s Matt right there getting the board together.
90
00:03:03,920 –> 00:03:06,640
That’s 734-245-4100.
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00:03:06,640 –> 00:03:09,480
If you need Matt and Bernie to come take care of your
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00:03:09,480 –> 00:03:10,400
voice over internet,
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00:03:10,640 –> 00:03:11,840
your security cameras,
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00:03:12,000 –> 00:03:13,600
off-campus access control,
95
00:03:13,840 –> 00:03:16,240
Wi-Fi and cameras for homes and business,
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00:03:16,240 –> 00:03:17,360
they’ll design it for you.
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00:03:17,680 –> 00:03:18,400
got restaurants,
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00:03:18,400 –> 00:03:19,640
they do drive-thru systems,
99
00:03:19,640 –> 00:03:21,360
railroad cameras for public safety.
100
00:03:21,600 –> 00:03:24,880
Total wireless camera systems for your home and business.
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Yeah, that’s right.
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00:03:25,600 –> 00:03:29,320
Call XG Services at 734-245-4100.
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00:03:31,840 –> 00:03:35,240
Well, Karen is still at home,
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00:03:35,240 –> 00:03:36,240
feeling sorry for herself,
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00:03:36,240 –> 00:03:37,040
licking her paws.
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00:03:37,040 –> 00:03:40,000
So we have Jason Rowe sit in there.
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00:03:40,320 –> 00:03:41,600
Not a bad guy to sit in.
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00:03:41,600 –> 00:03:42,320
Look at those legs.
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00:03:44,080 –> 00:03:44,440
Look at this.
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00:03:44,440 –> 00:03:45,840
That is some golfing right there,
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00:03:45,840 –> 00:03:46,120
man.
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00:03:46,960 –> 00:03:47,600
How do you do that?
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00:03:47,880 –> 00:03:48,440
How do I do that?
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00:03:48,440 –> 00:03:49,280
What kind of product you?
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00:03:49,600 –> 00:03:50,640
That cocoa butter on the side?
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00:03:51,680 –> 00:03:52,320
You save those?
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00:03:52,320 –> 00:03:53,040
Land by the pool.
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00:03:53,040 –> 00:03:54,000
Do you shave those?
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00:03:54,080 –> 00:03:54,240
No.
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00:03:54,960 –> 00:03:55,880
Dude, it’s a little weird.
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00:03:56,440 –> 00:03:56,880
I’m straight.
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00:03:59,080 –> 00:03:59,280
What?
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00:03:59,280 –> 00:04:00,280
I identify.
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00:04:00,280 –> 00:04:01,200
A little manscape is.
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00:04:01,280 –> 00:04:01,920
Heterosexual.
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00:04:02,320 –> 00:04:03,360
Can be heterosexual,
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00:04:03,360 –> 00:04:03,520
dude.
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00:04:03,520 –> 00:04:04,480
I mean, you’re wearing pink.
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God’s sake.
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00:04:05,760 –> 00:04:06,920
Money makes men bold.
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00:04:07,440 –> 00:04:08,400
And what this is a J.
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00:04:08,400 –> 00:04:09,360
Rubin Appleman.
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00:04:11,120 –> 00:04:12,320
People might remember anyway,
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00:04:12,320 –> 00:04:14,320
like, I don’t even know how to describe you,
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00:04:14,320 –> 00:04:14,560
bro.
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00:04:14,560 –> 00:04:16,640
Like, you’re from here,
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00:04:17,280 –> 00:04:17,800
but you’re like,
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00:04:17,840 –> 00:04:21,120
again, one of the country’s best true crime writers
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00:04:21,280 –> 00:04:22,240
wrote The Kill Jar.
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I read that.
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in one sitting,
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00:04:25,040 –> 00:04:26,880
about the Oakland County child killer.
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Do you think that they tried to get you too?
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00:04:31,200 –> 00:04:31,920
Well, man,
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00:04:32,640 –> 00:04:34,000
that’s how it started,
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00:04:34,240 –> 00:04:35,160
my interest in the book,
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00:04:35,160 –> 00:04:35,920
in the story,
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00:04:35,920 –> 00:04:37,600
but maybe,
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00:04:37,600 –> 00:04:37,920
not.
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00:04:37,920 –> 00:04:39,800
I was like 6 or 7 years old.
151
00:04:39,800 –> 00:04:41,800
Somebody tried to snatch me up in Southfield.
152
00:04:42,720 –> 00:04:44,520
Car matched the description a little bit.
153
00:04:45,840 –> 00:04:49,160
circumstances match the description or the MO of the
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00:04:49,600 –> 00:04:50,720
alleged killer,
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00:04:50,720 –> 00:04:53,000
but, I think from reading the book,
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00:04:53,000 –> 00:04:54,960
I don’t believe it was like an Oakland County child
157
00:04:54,960 –> 00:04:56,160
killer period.
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00:04:56,400 –> 00:04:57,840
There were multiple people involved,
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00:04:59,280 –> 00:05:00,320
pornography,
160
00:05:01,360 –> 00:05:02,240
child rape,
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00:05:03,000 –> 00:05:03,720
things like that.
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00:05:03,720 –> 00:05:04,640
I mean, I don’t know what to tell you,
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00:05:04,640 –> 00:05:05,200
brother, but like,
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00:05:05,840 –> 00:05:06,720
people still say,
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00:05:06,720 –> 00:05:08,240
oh, who was the Oakland County child killer?
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00:05:08,240 –> 00:05:09,120
They got it all wrong.
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00:05:09,120 –> 00:05:09,840
You got to read the books.
168
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You got to see the shows.
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So.
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00:05:12,400 –> 00:05:12,760
And
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00:05:14,280 –> 00:05:15,520
That’s kind of like,
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00:05:15,520 –> 00:05:17,440
I read the book a while ago,
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00:05:17,600 –> 00:05:18,240
but I mean,
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00:05:18,640 –> 00:05:19,320
it was considered,
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00:05:19,320 –> 00:05:20,840
I think the New York Times called it one of the best
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00:05:20,840 –> 00:05:23,920
true crime books of 2018.
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00:05:23,920 –> 00:05:24,400
Is that right?
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00:05:24,480 –> 00:05:25,360
Yeah, when it came out,
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00:05:25,360 –> 00:05:26,400
yeah, In fact,
180
00:05:26,400 –> 00:05:28,160
it’s funny because they call it a true crime memoir
181
00:05:28,160 –> 00:05:28,480
now.
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00:05:28,640 –> 00:05:30,400
When I was trying to get it published for five fucking
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00:05:30,400 –> 00:05:32,760
years, they were going to everybody.
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00:05:32,760 –> 00:05:33,400
Everybody was saying,
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00:05:33,400 –> 00:05:36,080
I don’t know if this is true crime or memoir.
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00:05:36,080 –> 00:05:37,640
I don’t know if this is true crime or memoir.
187
00:05:37,640 –> 00:05:38,000
It’s great,
188
00:05:38,000 –> 00:05:39,120
but we don’t know what to do with it.
189
00:05:39,360 –> 00:05:41,280
Then the first blurb I got when it was finally published
190
00:05:41,280 –> 00:05:44,200
was something like a brave new voice in the
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00:05:44,320 –> 00:05:46,000
the true crime memoir genre.
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00:05:46,160 –> 00:05:48,640
Like they made-up the genre so they could sell my book.
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00:05:48,640 –> 00:05:50,920
So you’re dominating that category.
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00:05:51,360 –> 00:05:54,240
Well, I’ll Be Gone in the Dark had come out like the
195
00:05:54,320 –> 00:05:55,040
year before,
196
00:05:55,280 –> 00:05:58,560
which sort of opened the door for my book to come
197
00:05:58,680 –> 00:05:59,080
out, but yeah.
198
00:05:59,080 –> 00:06:00,720
And we’ll get to all that.
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00:06:00,800 –> 00:06:02,560
Any other shit to take care of here?
200
00:06:02,560 –> 00:06:02,960
Oh yeah.
201
00:06:04,080 –> 00:06:05,760
Remember, next Wednesday,
202
00:06:05,760 –> 00:06:06,800
a week from today,
203
00:06:06,800 –> 00:06:07,760
it’s Hoffa Night.
204
00:06:08,400 –> 00:06:09,520
Scott Bernstein,
205
00:06:10,000 –> 00:06:11,120
Rick Combatino,
206
00:06:11,360 –> 00:06:12,800
and Novo Toko.
207
00:06:13,600 –> 00:06:14,960
will reveal their findings,
208
00:06:14,960 –> 00:06:17,840
their investigation as to who killed Jimmy Hoffa,
209
00:06:18,160 –> 00:06:19,600
new FBI files,
210
00:06:20,400 –> 00:06:22,840
recorded tapes with the supposed killer,
211
00:06:22,840 –> 00:06:23,280
right?
212
00:06:23,520 –> 00:06:24,080
A wire.
213
00:06:24,400 –> 00:06:25,360
Should be interesting.
214
00:06:25,440 –> 00:06:28,080
It’s going to be at the Macomb Community College.
215
00:06:28,880 –> 00:06:30,080
South Campus,
216
00:06:30,240 –> 00:06:32,120
and it’s a whole multimedia thing.
217
00:06:32,120 –> 00:06:33,600
It’s not just those three talking.
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00:06:33,600 –> 00:06:34,080
I mean, there’s,
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00:06:34,240 –> 00:06:34,480
you know,
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00:06:34,560 –> 00:06:34,960
pictures,
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00:06:34,960 –> 00:06:35,520
like you said,
222
00:06:35,520 –> 00:06:36,560
the wiretap,
223
00:06:36,640 –> 00:06:37,840
which is kind of interesting.
224
00:06:38,400 –> 00:06:39,920
So it’s a pretty cool.
225
00:06:40,040 –> 00:06:40,880
I’m going to go to it.
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00:06:40,880 –> 00:06:42,360
Yeah, no, it sounds like a good thing.
227
00:06:42,360 –> 00:06:43,720
And that’s the 50th anniversary.
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00:06:43,720 –> 00:06:44,880
This is the 50th anniversary.
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00:06:45,040 –> 00:06:46,240
Oh, you know what I should do?
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00:06:46,240 –> 00:06:47,280
I shouldn’t say this because,
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00:06:47,280 –> 00:06:47,440
you know,
232
00:06:47,440 –> 00:06:49,520
the media watches this and just steals all my work
233
00:06:49,520 –> 00:06:50,640
and doesn’t give me any credit.
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00:06:51,600 –> 00:06:52,880
I might go to the Red Fox,
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00:06:52,880 –> 00:06:54,040
which is now on the Amos.
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00:06:54,040 –> 00:06:54,720
Oh, yeah.
237
00:06:55,760 –> 00:06:57,040
on the 50th anniversary.
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00:06:58,720 –> 00:06:59,320
You know what I mean?
239
00:06:59,320 –> 00:07:00,600
It’s going to be a fucking tour.
240
00:07:00,600 –> 00:07:03,920
I was there the other night and the bartender was telling
241
00:07:03,920 –> 00:07:07,360
me busloads of people show up every year for the anniversary
242
00:07:07,360 –> 00:07:08,320
looking for…
243
00:07:08,880 –> 00:07:09,880
Clues, evidence,
244
00:07:09,880 –> 00:07:11,360
stealing silverware,
245
00:07:11,600 –> 00:07:12,200
crazy shit.
246
00:07:12,320 –> 00:07:15,040
I think the only thing that’s still like there that
247
00:07:15,040 –> 00:07:17,840
is close to him is the pay phone that was on the wall.
248
00:07:17,840 –> 00:07:18,480
No, it’s gone.
249
00:07:18,480 –> 00:07:19,400
There’s got stolen,
250
00:07:19,400 –> 00:07:20,240
but there’s an outline of it,
251
00:07:20,280 –> 00:07:20,440
right?
252
00:07:21,040 –> 00:07:22,160
I think on the wall,
253
00:07:22,200 –> 00:07:22,840
yeah, which is okay.
254
00:07:22,960 –> 00:07:23,760
It got stolen?
255
00:07:24,040 –> 00:07:24,200
Yeah.
256
00:07:24,720 –> 00:07:25,960
So he had it in the basement.
257
00:07:25,960 –> 00:07:27,840
Someone broke into the restaurant and stole it out
258
00:07:27,840 –> 00:07:28,400
of the basement.
259
00:07:28,480 –> 00:07:30,080
What, just the phone hanging on the wall?
260
00:07:30,400 –> 00:07:32,240
I don’t know if it was the phone booth or just the
261
00:07:32,240 –> 00:07:32,360
phone.
262
00:07:32,360 –> 00:07:34,360
Probably a PA from that movie they did.
263
00:07:34,560 –> 00:07:36,080
The Irishman.
264
00:07:36,960 –> 00:07:38,760
Another funny thing the bartender told me is.
265
00:07:38,880 –> 00:07:40,960
Diamos used to be where everyone that was having an
266
00:07:40,960 –> 00:07:45,120
affair would go to hang out with their mistress until
267
00:07:45,120 –> 00:07:47,280
they redesigned it and opened it up and then nobody
268
00:07:47,280 –> 00:07:48,160
showed up anymore.
269
00:07:48,160 –> 00:07:50,800
So they lost like all of their infidelity business.
270
00:07:53,120 –> 00:07:54,400
What do you say?
271
00:07:54,800 –> 00:07:56,240
People were asking for silverware?
272
00:07:56,400 –> 00:07:57,120
Yes, they are.
273
00:07:57,520 –> 00:07:58,560
But that’s Jimmy’s fork?
274
00:07:59,200 –> 00:07:59,400
Yes.
275
00:07:59,400 –> 00:08:00,440
It’s so stupid.
276
00:08:01,600 –> 00:08:04,760
Yeah, there’s some people probably think there’s DNA.
277
00:08:04,760 –> 00:08:05,920
Imagine that.
278
00:08:06,000 –> 00:08:08,240
Bartender also told me that people come in,
279
00:08:08,240 –> 00:08:09,040
like the tourists,
280
00:08:09,040 –> 00:08:12,280
with fanny packs that have like Jimmy Hoffa’s name
281
00:08:12,280 –> 00:08:13,120
and picture on them.
282
00:08:14,320 –> 00:08:14,520
J.
283
00:08:14,520 –> 00:08:15,280
Ruben Appleman,
284
00:08:16,560 –> 00:08:19,440
author of the Kill Jar and the newest one,
285
00:08:19,440 –> 00:08:20,720
While Idaho Slept,
286
00:08:20,720 –> 00:08:20,920
right?
287
00:08:20,920 –> 00:08:22,880
The murder of the four college students.
288
00:08:24,000 –> 00:08:25,360
That dude just pled guilty,
289
00:08:25,360 –> 00:08:25,680
didn’t he,
290
00:08:25,680 –> 00:08:25,880
Mark?
291
00:08:26,320 –> 00:08:27,760
Yeah, Brian Kohlberger.
292
00:08:28,560 –> 00:08:29,920
Kind of a surprise plea,
293
00:08:29,920 –> 00:08:30,560
I thought.
294
00:08:30,720 –> 00:08:31,840
I don’t know what you think,
295
00:08:32,400 –> 00:08:32,680
Jason.
296
00:08:32,800 –> 00:08:33,640
He wrote the fucking book.
297
00:08:33,640 –> 00:08:34,160
What do you think?
298
00:08:34,720 –> 00:08:36,480
Well, I haven’t read it because you didn’t count me.
299
00:08:39,440 –> 00:08:42,160
I can get you a bunch now because Patterson’s got a
300
00:08:42,160 –> 00:08:42,880
new book coming out.
301
00:08:42,880 –> 00:08:44,840
It’d probably fucking be the only thing you see now
302
00:08:44,840 –> 00:08:45,320
about that case.
303
00:08:45,320 –> 00:08:46,800
So I probably have boxes in my book.
304
00:08:46,840 –> 00:08:47,480
Who’s Patterson?
305
00:08:48,040 –> 00:08:48,640
Patterson.
306
00:08:48,640 –> 00:08:49,200
I don’t know.
307
00:08:49,520 –> 00:08:50,200
James Patterson.
308
00:08:50,400 –> 00:08:51,040
James Patterson,
309
00:08:51,040 –> 00:08:52,440
the guy who’s got 250 books.
310
00:08:52,440 –> 00:08:53,680
Nobody in the right fucking,
311
00:08:53,920 –> 00:08:54,160
you know,
312
00:08:54,240 –> 00:08:55,120
it would take a mega,
313
00:08:55,120 –> 00:08:58,720
mega, mega fucking computer to bust out 250 good books
314
00:08:58,720 –> 00:08:59,640
by itself.
315
00:08:59,840 –> 00:09:01,560
James Patterson doesn’t write his books anymore.
316
00:09:01,560 –> 00:09:02,480
Let’s get that straight.
317
00:09:03,040 –> 00:09:04,960
Have you ever seen,
318
00:09:04,960 –> 00:09:06,720
okay, so you live in Idaho now.
319
00:09:06,720 –> 00:09:07,640
You’re from Oakland County.
320
00:09:07,640 –> 00:09:08,680
Where’d you grow up in Southfield?
321
00:09:08,680 –> 00:09:09,440
I grew up in Southfield.
322
00:09:09,440 –> 00:09:09,720
Right.
323
00:09:09,760 –> 00:09:10,760
Okay, you live in Idaho now.
324
00:09:10,760 –> 00:09:12,320
You’ve been for the last quarter century.
325
00:09:12,600 –> 00:09:12,720
Yeah.
326
00:09:13,280 –> 00:09:16,440
So did you see this Patterson guy wandering around
327
00:09:16,440 –> 00:09:17,000
doing the work?
328
00:09:17,120 –> 00:09:21,000
Because I cover Ground Zero for a whole fucking year,
329
00:09:21,000 –> 00:09:21,440
right?
330
00:09:21,680 –> 00:09:22,560
The only guy.
331
00:09:23,240 –> 00:09:24,000
Only guy there,
332
00:09:24,000 –> 00:09:24,760
undercover,
333
00:09:24,760 –> 00:09:26,880
all sudden all these books,
334
00:09:26,880 –> 00:09:27,840
a year at Ground Zero.
335
00:09:27,840 –> 00:09:29,680
I’m like, I never fucking saw you there.
336
00:09:30,240 –> 00:09:31,920
I would know if you were there.
337
00:09:32,640 –> 00:09:33,560
Yeah, In fact,
338
00:09:33,560 –> 00:09:37,040
I’m giving Patterson too much audio time right now.
339
00:09:37,680 –> 00:09:38,880
While Idaho slept.
340
00:09:38,960 –> 00:09:40,320
His name is the book I wrote.
341
00:09:40,320 –> 00:09:41,120
John Peterman.
342
00:09:41,120 –> 00:09:41,840
OK, look for that.
343
00:09:42,800 –> 00:09:43,640
While Idaho slept.
344
00:09:43,640 –> 00:09:44,400
Yeah, I wrote that book.
345
00:09:44,400 –> 00:09:45,840
The first book that came out about.
346
00:09:47,040 –> 00:09:47,520
the Idaho,
347
00:09:47,760 –> 00:09:48,560
Idaho murders.
348
00:09:48,560 –> 00:09:49,960
And I want to say another thing about that.
349
00:09:49,960 –> 00:09:50,960
The second book that came out,
350
00:09:51,120 –> 00:09:52,560
that motherfucker wasn’t there either.
351
00:09:53,280 –> 00:09:55,600
And he can’t pronounce the victim’s family’s names
352
00:09:55,600 –> 00:09:57,120
right and shit like that when he’s doing,
353
00:09:57,280 –> 00:09:57,760
you know,
354
00:09:57,840 –> 00:09:58,480
spots.
355
00:09:58,880 –> 00:10:00,720
So I will just say this.
356
00:10:02,640 –> 00:10:05,760
I wrote what I hope was an authentic,
357
00:10:06,160 –> 00:10:07,120
sensitive,
358
00:10:08,000 –> 00:10:09,040
smart book.
359
00:10:09,360 –> 00:10:11,280
In the limited time that I had to write it,
360
00:10:11,280 –> 00:10:13,280
HarperCollins gave me a four-month deadline to bust
361
00:10:13,280 –> 00:10:14,160
out the first draft.
362
00:10:14,400 –> 00:10:16,720
I was on the ground every fucking day talking to those
363
00:10:16,720 –> 00:10:20,520
people, trying to talk to the family members of the
364
00:10:20,520 –> 00:10:23,760
victims, which is very difficult in the immediate
365
00:10:23,760 –> 00:10:25,920
aftermath of those horrific murders,
366
00:10:26,120 –> 00:10:27,600
trying to get people on the phone to talk to you,
367
00:10:27,600 –> 00:10:27,760
you know,
368
00:10:27,760 –> 00:10:28,720
they don’t give a fuck about you.
369
00:10:28,720 –> 00:10:31,200
I always say I’m trespassing and other people’s suffering.
370
00:10:31,200 –> 00:10:32,520
And that’s a hard thing to do.
371
00:10:32,600 –> 00:10:35,600
do, as other people know who have written these kinds
372
00:10:35,600 –> 00:10:37,200
of investigative books of misery.
373
00:10:37,440 –> 00:10:38,320
Yeah, it’s tough.
374
00:10:39,040 –> 00:10:42,000
But I did the best I could with that story.
375
00:10:42,000 –> 00:10:43,120
In answer to your question,
376
00:10:43,120 –> 00:10:43,920
I think it was like,
377
00:10:44,000 –> 00:10:45,440
do you know something about that case?
378
00:10:45,760 –> 00:10:46,120
Yeah.
379
00:10:46,320 –> 00:10:48,400
And what I think it all was about the plea.
380
00:10:48,720 –> 00:10:49,000
Yeah.
381
00:10:49,280 –> 00:10:51,920
I did not expect him to plea,
382
00:10:52,160 –> 00:10:55,920
but I certainly expected that he would get convicted
383
00:10:55,920 –> 00:10:57,920
of those murders because if you take any person of
384
00:10:57,920 –> 00:11:00,520
color in this country and you put the same evidence
385
00:11:00,520 –> 00:11:01,440
on those people,
386
00:11:02,000 –> 00:11:02,520
they’re going away
387
00:11:02,600 –> 00:11:03,840
they would have already been locked away.
388
00:11:04,000 –> 00:11:05,240
The fact is he was,
389
00:11:05,240 –> 00:11:07,720
whether you think he’s autistically weird or whatever
390
00:11:07,720 –> 00:11:08,880
you call him in,
391
00:11:08,880 –> 00:11:09,120
you know,
392
00:11:09,120 –> 00:11:11,200
that’s the slander online and shit,
393
00:11:11,400 –> 00:11:14,200
whether you think he’s a fucking maniacal,
394
00:11:14,200 –> 00:11:14,720
whatever,
395
00:11:14,720 –> 00:11:16,640
whether you think he’s creepy or whatever it is.
396
00:11:16,800 –> 00:11:17,760
If you just look at,
397
00:11:17,760 –> 00:11:19,440
if you just look at Brian Kohberger,
398
00:11:19,680 –> 00:11:23,120
he’s a relatively handsome white dude who had all
399
00:11:23,120 –> 00:11:24,160
the media on him.
400
00:11:24,320 –> 00:11:27,200
So the defense had all the time in the world to draw
401
00:11:27,200 –> 00:11:28,320
this fucking thing out.
402
00:11:28,400 –> 00:11:29,680
They had all the resources.
403
00:11:29,680 –> 00:11:31,520
Everybody was giving money because they had to do it
404
00:11:31,520 –> 00:11:32,320
right because
405
00:11:32,600 –> 00:11:33,840
everybody was looking at this case.
406
00:11:33,920 –> 00:11:35,440
So they had to do everything right,
407
00:11:35,520 –> 00:11:37,360
which means they had all the resources in the fucking
408
00:11:37,360 –> 00:11:37,680
world.
409
00:11:38,160 –> 00:11:40,960
And any other person of color,
410
00:11:41,040 –> 00:11:42,640
any poor person,
411
00:11:42,800 –> 00:11:44,720
any even middle-class person,
412
00:11:44,960 –> 00:11:46,400
this shit would have already been a lot.
413
00:11:46,400 –> 00:11:47,440
Like he would have gone away.
414
00:11:47,440 –> 00:11:48,160
They had DNA,
415
00:11:48,160 –> 00:11:51,440
they had forensic sell shit.
416
00:11:52,160 –> 00:11:54,720
They had all kinds of his online history.
417
00:11:54,880 –> 00:11:56,120
They had, I mean,
418
00:11:56,160 –> 00:11:57,080
just so much shit.
419
00:11:57,080 –> 00:11:57,760
I get you.
420
00:11:57,920 –> 00:11:59,200
They would have put anybody away,
421
00:11:59,200 –> 00:12:00,320
but this case was big,
422
00:12:00,400 –> 00:12:01,360
so it took a while.
423
00:12:01,600 –> 00:12:02,520
I did not expect the police
424
00:12:02,640 –> 00:12:04,760
But I certainly expected he’d get locked up.
425
00:12:04,960 –> 00:12:05,480
In the end,
426
00:12:05,560 –> 00:12:06,120
stay locked up.
427
00:12:06,120 –> 00:12:08,160
They had an eyewitness of sorts,
428
00:12:08,160 –> 00:12:09,360
the DoorDash driver.
429
00:12:09,360 –> 00:12:09,720
Was that a,
430
00:12:09,840 –> 00:12:12,480
that must have been a surprise for the defense team,
431
00:12:12,480 –> 00:12:12,960
I thought.
432
00:12:13,280 –> 00:12:15,920
Yeah, What a DoorDash driver witnessed it while he
433
00:12:15,920 –> 00:12:18,040
snuck in the house and slashed four people to death.
434
00:12:18,040 –> 00:12:20,400
Saw him in the car at like 3 A.m.
435
00:12:20,400 –> 00:12:21,200
They saw him in.
436
00:12:21,200 –> 00:12:22,000
Time out, time out,
437
00:12:22,000 –> 00:12:22,360
time out,
438
00:12:22,360 –> 00:12:22,560
time out.
439
00:12:22,840 –> 00:12:23,120
Okay, wait,
440
00:12:23,120 –> 00:12:24,960
because this was just for me,
441
00:12:24,960 –> 00:12:26,360
like World News Tonight.
442
00:12:26,360 –> 00:12:27,600
Oh, whoa, jeez,
443
00:12:27,600 –> 00:12:28,320
wow, man.
444
00:12:28,320 –> 00:12:29,440
Oh, okay, they got him.
445
00:12:31,320 –> 00:12:33,920
So 4 people are like stabbed to death,
446
00:12:33,920 –> 00:12:34,240
right?
447
00:12:34,640 –> 00:12:35,520
In their sleep.
448
00:12:38,000 –> 00:12:38,920
At 3 in the morning.
449
00:12:39,600 –> 00:12:40,480
In their sleep-ish,
450
00:12:40,480 –> 00:12:41,480
but we can talk about that.
451
00:12:41,480 –> 00:12:42,960
So what’s that fucking DoorDash?
452
00:12:43,000 –> 00:12:45,000
Who called the DoorDash driver at 3 in the morning
453
00:12:45,000 –> 00:12:45,560
in their sleep?
454
00:12:45,560 –> 00:12:46,480
College Town.
455
00:12:46,720 –> 00:12:47,600
Four in the morning,
456
00:12:47,600 –> 00:12:47,880
actually.
457
00:12:47,920 –> 00:12:49,520
So there were more than four people living in that
458
00:12:49,520 –> 00:12:50,240
house, probably.
459
00:12:50,880 –> 00:12:51,440
Yeah, brother.
460
00:12:51,440 –> 00:12:54,000
Listen, I’ll tell you briefly how this DoorDash thing
461
00:12:54,000 –> 00:12:54,320
went down.
462
00:12:54,520 –> 00:12:56,240
It’s 4 in the morning.
463
00:12:56,240 –> 00:12:57,520
Everybody’s come home from drinking.
464
00:12:57,520 –> 00:12:58,680
They don’t get home until 2,
465
00:12:58,680 –> 00:12:59,360
around 2,
466
00:12:59,360 –> 00:12:59,760
rough, you know,
467
00:12:59,760 –> 00:13:00,800
1 50, 2 o’clock.
468
00:13:01,920 –> 00:13:03,520
You know, some of them go to sleep and some of them
469
00:13:03,520 –> 00:13:04,080
are still up.
470
00:13:04,080 –> 00:13:06,240
One of them was on TikTok for a couple hours and she
471
00:13:06,240 –> 00:13:07,360
ordered DoorDash.
472
00:13:07,840 –> 00:13:10,160
And I’m giving you broad strokes.
473
00:13:10,160 –> 00:13:11,920
Yeah, thanks for that.
474
00:13:11,920 –> 00:13:12,800
She ordered some DoorDash.
475
00:13:12,800 –> 00:13:16,240
The DoorDash driver showed up and allegedly recently,
476
00:13:16,640 –> 00:13:18,240
during being pulled over,
477
00:13:18,720 –> 00:13:20,920
in a drunk driving incident,
478
00:13:20,920 –> 00:13:23,560
we got to understand she was so she was inebriated
479
00:13:23,560 –> 00:13:25,920
when she’s told a police officer,
480
00:13:25,920 –> 00:13:28,360
hey, I got to be over whatever because they’re going
481
00:13:28,360 –> 00:13:32,280
to need me for this court thing because I saw Brian
482
00:13:32,280 –> 00:13:34,920
Kohberger sitting in the car outside the house or
483
00:13:34,920 –> 00:13:35,280
whatever.
484
00:13:35,280 –> 00:13:35,520
Okay.
485
00:13:35,520 –> 00:13:37,440
So she says this after a DUI poll.
486
00:13:37,680 –> 00:13:39,280
So first of all,
487
00:13:40,080 –> 00:13:42,520
that probably weighs heavily on the defense’s mind
488
00:13:42,520 –> 00:13:42,880
going, man,
489
00:13:42,880 –> 00:13:43,840
if there’s an eyewitness,
490
00:13:43,840 –> 00:13:45,640
now they got one of the things that they were missing.
491
00:13:45,640 –> 00:13:46,440
They didn’t have the weapon.
492
00:13:46,440 –> 00:13:47,360
They didn’t have an eyewitness.
493
00:13:47,800 –> 00:13:49,440
All this other shit could be poked through a little
494
00:13:49,440 –> 00:13:49,680
bit.
495
00:13:49,840 –> 00:13:51,800
The DNA, they might have been able to throw out,
496
00:13:51,800 –> 00:13:53,600
because you got everybody looking at this case.
497
00:13:53,840 –> 00:13:55,840
The DNA, they might have been able to throw out because
498
00:13:56,240 –> 00:13:57,760
they matched it illegally.
499
00:13:57,920 –> 00:14:00,400
It’d be the first case in the history of the United
500
00:14:00,400 –> 00:14:02,560
States when they matched,
501
00:14:02,560 –> 00:14:06,160
they found the perpetrator by utilizing 23andMe,
502
00:14:06,160 –> 00:14:07,440
or I’m talking,
503
00:14:07,440 –> 00:14:08,480
it’s not 23andMe,
504
00:14:08,640 –> 00:14:10,480
but I’m saying that type of service.
505
00:14:11,720 –> 00:14:12,480
Previously,
506
00:14:12,720 –> 00:14:15,760
they already had a perpetrator when they used 23andMe
507
00:14:15,760 –> 00:14:16,480
type things,
508
00:14:16,640 –> 00:14:17,920
and they would look for that perp.
509
00:14:17,920 –> 00:14:18,480
They already said,
510
00:14:18,480 –> 00:14:19,680
okay, we’re going to take his DNA.
511
00:14:19,680 –> 00:14:20,560
We already know it’s him.
512
00:14:20,800 –> 00:14:21,280
This time,
513
00:14:21,280 –> 00:14:24,000
they just took some fucking DNA and shot it through
514
00:14:24,000 –> 00:14:24,880
one of these things.
515
00:14:24,960 –> 00:14:27,560
And it’s currently illegal to do that because the people
516
00:14:27,560 –> 00:14:31,200
who submit their DNA to those sites don’t give consent
517
00:14:31,200 –> 00:14:32,480
to have it matched like this.
518
00:14:33,320 –> 00:14:35,120
Okay, it’s a long story about that.
519
00:14:35,120 –> 00:14:36,000
But the point is,
520
00:14:36,320 –> 00:14:37,240
theoretically,
521
00:14:37,240 –> 00:14:39,520
if you take 12 jurors who don’t know shit about this
522
00:14:39,520 –> 00:14:41,680
case and you just put them in a room and you tell
523
00:14:41,680 –> 00:14:42,560
them that’s illegal,
524
00:14:42,640 –> 00:14:44,400
they could have that,
525
00:14:44,400 –> 00:14:44,920
they could say,
526
00:14:45,040 –> 00:14:46,040
we can’t count that.
527
00:14:46,760 –> 00:14:47,840
The cell phone forensics,
528
00:14:47,840 –> 00:14:49,720
the same forensics that put him at the scene,
529
00:14:49,960 –> 00:14:52,360
they only put him within an area of the scene.
530
00:14:52,600 –> 00:14:53,680
Let’s say 200 yards,
531
00:14:53,680 –> 00:14:54,600
let’s say 400 yards.
532
00:14:54,600 –> 00:14:55,720
They don’t put him in the house.
533
00:14:57,320 –> 00:14:58,920
This DoorDash driver,
534
00:14:58,920 –> 00:15:01,960
I agree with you that it’s that it’s a sort of volatile
535
00:15:01,960 –> 00:15:02,680
piece of evidence.
536
00:15:02,840 –> 00:15:03,800
She saw him there,
537
00:15:03,880 –> 00:15:05,640
but she did not see him in the house.
538
00:15:05,640 –> 00:15:07,000
She saw him outside the house.
539
00:15:07,160 –> 00:15:09,640
What I’m saying is that if you take a jury that doesn’t
540
00:15:09,640 –> 00:15:11,960
know shit and you throw millions of dollars in defense
541
00:15:11,960 –> 00:15:13,240
funds toward toward a team,
542
00:15:13,240 –> 00:15:13,960
just like the O.J.
543
00:15:13,960 –> 00:15:16,680
shit, and bore him and confuse him,
544
00:15:16,760 –> 00:15:17,560
and just like the O.J.
545
00:15:17,560 –> 00:15:17,760
shit.
546
00:15:17,760 –> 00:15:19,160
You always got an asshole in that,
547
00:15:19,160 –> 00:15:19,440
you know,
548
00:15:19,720 –> 00:15:20,200
in that jury.
549
00:15:20,200 –> 00:15:22,840
Yeah, and you could fuck this whole case up.
550
00:15:22,840 –> 00:15:25,840
So the plea made sense from a prosecution standpoint
551
00:15:25,840 –> 00:15:26,520
to offer it.
552
00:15:27,320 –> 00:15:30,400
And it probably made sense from the defense side to
553
00:15:30,400 –> 00:15:33,440
take it because the chances of all that shit getting
554
00:15:33,440 –> 00:15:34,280
thrown out are slim.
555
00:15:34,520 –> 00:15:34,800
Yeah.
556
00:15:35,000 –> 00:15:37,080
So that’s my take.
557
00:15:37,080 –> 00:15:37,640
That’s my hot take.
558
00:15:37,640 –> 00:15:38,760
Did he have legs like that?
559
00:15:40,200 –> 00:15:40,680
I got to say,
560
00:15:40,680 –> 00:15:42,400
I don’t have hair on my legs,
561
00:15:42,400 –> 00:15:42,600
bro.
562
00:15:42,720 –> 00:15:43,240
Stabber.
563
00:15:44,040 –> 00:15:45,480
Why do you fucking kill those people?
564
00:15:45,480 –> 00:15:47,000
Yeah, that’s the big question motive.
565
00:15:47,600 –> 00:15:49,880
a lot of people think that he was obsessed with Maddie
566
00:15:49,880 –> 00:15:50,360
Mogan.
567
00:15:50,520 –> 00:15:51,640
If you look at the four,
568
00:15:51,720 –> 00:15:53,200
one of the victims,
569
00:15:53,240 –> 00:15:54,520
the four kids that were killed,
570
00:15:55,040 –> 00:15:59,160
one of them is your like stereotypical gorgeous blonde
571
00:15:59,160 –> 00:16:01,080
sort of thing that I’m saying stereotype,
572
00:16:01,080 –> 00:16:02,760
I’m not saying taste or whatever.
573
00:16:02,760 –> 00:16:03,360
It’s just like,
574
00:16:03,360 –> 00:16:03,960
she’s the one,
575
00:16:04,760 –> 00:16:05,160
she’s the,
576
00:16:05,880 –> 00:16:06,360
she’s the,
577
00:16:06,360 –> 00:16:06,920
well, no,
578
00:16:06,920 –> 00:16:07,400
for real though,
579
00:16:07,400 –> 00:16:07,960
like, I don’t know,
580
00:16:07,960 –> 00:16:08,280
man.
581
00:16:08,440 –> 00:16:10,440
I mean, Was she hot or not?
582
00:16:10,920 –> 00:16:11,400
Yes.
583
00:16:11,560 –> 00:16:11,840
Okay.
584
00:16:11,960 –> 00:16:12,920
They were all beautiful.
585
00:16:13,720 –> 00:16:15,000
They’re all beautiful white people.
586
00:16:15,000 –> 00:16:16,080
You guys are making me uncomfortable.
587
00:16:16,080 –> 00:16:17,560
White people can’t be beautiful anymore.
588
00:16:17,800 –> 00:16:18,960
You guys are making me uncomfortable,
589
00:16:18,960 –> 00:16:19,160
man.
590
00:16:20,520 –> 00:16:22,600
Listen, you’re beautiful too,
591
00:16:22,720 –> 00:16:23,640
in a certain way.
592
00:16:23,640 –> 00:16:25,960
There’s other things about Maddie is what I’m saying.
593
00:16:25,960 –> 00:16:29,320
It’s been rumoured and there were screenshots that
594
00:16:29,320 –> 00:16:31,000
he that suggest that he,
595
00:16:31,000 –> 00:16:32,680
unless they were fake screenshots,
596
00:16:33,240 –> 00:16:33,960
that he
597
00:16:34,680 –> 00:16:36,920
Instagram messaged Maddie multiple times,
598
00:16:36,920 –> 00:16:37,720
like, hey,
599
00:16:38,000 –> 00:16:39,160
and she never responded.
600
00:16:39,320 –> 00:16:41,240
If you ask me why he killed these people.
601
00:16:41,240 –> 00:16:42,120
Wait, did she know him?
602
00:16:42,120 –> 00:16:42,480
No.
603
00:16:42,840 –> 00:16:48,000
Okay, so a dude you don’t know is messaging you and
604
00:16:48,000 –> 00:16:48,440
you don’t.
605
00:16:48,480 –> 00:16:49,480
Whoa, man,
606
00:16:49,960 –> 00:16:50,960
things are getting bad.
607
00:16:52,840 –> 00:16:53,360
Not like, hey,
608
00:16:53,360 –> 00:16:55,320
I like your art or hey,
609
00:16:55,480 –> 00:16:56,680
I saw you at the shop.
610
00:16:56,680 –> 00:16:57,480
You were cool.
611
00:16:57,480 –> 00:16:58,280
Nothing just hey,
612
00:16:58,440 –> 00:16:58,640
right?
613
00:16:58,640 –> 00:16:59,800
So of course they’re not going to answer.
614
00:16:59,800 –> 00:17:02,840
But that’s a big reason this whole case blew up nationally
615
00:17:02,840 –> 00:17:05,720
and got so much attention is because they’re all very
616
00:17:05,720 –> 00:17:06,280
attractive.
617
00:17:06,280 –> 00:17:07,880
It’s in the heartland of America.
618
00:17:08,000 –> 00:17:08,600
And you know what?
619
00:17:08,600 –> 00:17:12,520
They posted every single thing they did on social media.
620
00:17:12,760 –> 00:17:15,000
So there was a lot of video and footage to be shown.
621
00:17:15,000 –> 00:17:15,880
And I got to say,
622
00:17:16,280 –> 00:17:17,480
I fall into that trap.
623
00:17:17,640 –> 00:17:20,200
I will consume that and consume that.
624
00:17:20,680 –> 00:17:22,720
But what the one thing that drove me
625
00:17:22,800 –> 00:17:26,680
nuts about it is the Reddit forums and people,
626
00:17:27,560 –> 00:17:30,120
pointing the finger at a professor who that person
627
00:17:30,120 –> 00:17:32,080
did it, or they saw somebody in the food truck video
628
00:17:32,080 –> 00:17:33,080
and that person did it.
629
00:17:33,560 –> 00:17:35,160
And it kind of drove me nuts because I’m like,
630
00:17:35,320 –> 00:17:38,360
I think the police do a pretty good job without all
631
00:17:38,360 –> 00:17:39,160
this stuff in the way.
632
00:17:39,160 –> 00:17:40,280
Does that affect
633
00:17:43,720 –> 00:17:44,520
social media.
634
00:17:44,520 –> 00:17:45,800
Everybody’s got a clue.
635
00:17:45,800 –> 00:17:47,160
The police have to run it down.
636
00:17:47,240 –> 00:17:48,160
Yeah, I understand.
637
00:17:48,160 –> 00:17:48,600
I understand.
638
00:17:48,600 –> 00:17:51,080
In fact, that was the first notion I had of writing
639
00:17:51,080 –> 00:17:53,200
this book was I wanted to write a book that focused
640
00:17:53,200 –> 00:17:55,760
solely on how the social media mob affects current
641
00:17:55,760 –> 00:17:57,080
day police investigations.
642
00:17:57,240 –> 00:17:58,520
I went up there looking around.
643
00:17:58,600 –> 00:17:59,960
I ran into Brian Enton from
644
00:18:00,800 –> 00:18:02,040
fucking news nation or whatever.
645
00:18:02,360 –> 00:18:04,240
I didn’t know anything about you media guys.
646
00:18:04,240 –> 00:18:04,680
I was like,
647
00:18:04,680 –> 00:18:06,840
I just started telling them what I was doing up there.
648
00:18:06,920 –> 00:18:07,600
That’s A no-no,
649
00:18:07,600 –> 00:18:08,000
apparently,
650
00:18:08,000 –> 00:18:09,080
because then they steal that shit.
651
00:18:09,400 –> 00:18:11,240
That very night I was talking to Brian Enton on the
652
00:18:11,240 –> 00:18:11,720
ground.
653
00:18:11,960 –> 00:18:15,640
He starts broadcasting shit about what I’m really interested
654
00:18:15,640 –> 00:18:18,600
in is the social media mob and how they affect investigations.
655
00:18:18,680 –> 00:18:19,480
I was like,
656
00:18:19,480 –> 00:18:21,600
I just told that guy like 8 hours earlier,
657
00:18:21,600 –> 00:18:23,000
I was writing a book about that shit.
658
00:18:23,160 –> 00:18:24,720
So we had to pivot and that kind of,
659
00:18:24,720 –> 00:18:27,000
and then the New York Times wrote a big thing.
660
00:18:27,160 –> 00:18:29,320
The New York Times published a big thing saying,
661
00:18:29,720 –> 00:18:30,720
we broke this story
662
00:18:30,880 –> 00:18:34,760
of Brian Kohberger’s Tapitoc post and how he has visual
663
00:18:34,760 –> 00:18:38,600
snow and how he suffers from isolation and stuff because
664
00:18:38,600 –> 00:18:40,640
he was posting online as a teenager about this shit.
665
00:18:40,640 –> 00:18:41,040
And they’re like,
666
00:18:41,040 –> 00:18:42,360
we broke this story.
667
00:18:42,600 –> 00:18:43,840
And there’s all this news.
668
00:18:43,840 –> 00:18:44,680
They didn’t break that shit.
669
00:18:44,680 –> 00:18:47,400
I saw that shit on Reddit 3 weeks before the New York
670
00:18:47,400 –> 00:18:48,120
Times did.
671
00:18:48,280 –> 00:18:50,040
And then they came out with this story.
672
00:18:50,200 –> 00:18:51,440
But there is meat there,
673
00:18:51,440 –> 00:18:55,800
which is that the social media mob in this case went
674
00:18:55,880 –> 00:19:00,720
crazy and in some ways helped the investigation.
675
00:19:00,800 –> 00:19:01,480
That’s what I would think.
676
00:19:01,560 –> 00:19:02,680
In some ways helped it.
677
00:19:02,840 –> 00:19:05,240
I’m a firm believer in crowdsourcing investigations.
678
00:19:05,240 –> 00:19:05,640
Like, hey,
679
00:19:05,640 –> 00:19:07,360
let’s help everybody help me find my dog.
680
00:19:07,360 –> 00:19:08,280
That’s as old as the hills.
681
00:19:08,280 –> 00:19:09,560
Like, here’s the tip line call.
682
00:19:09,800 –> 00:19:11,520
Yeah, and poster of your dog.
683
00:19:11,520 –> 00:19:12,520
That’s crowdsourcing.
684
00:19:12,840 –> 00:19:13,680
Help me find my dog.
685
00:19:13,680 –> 00:19:14,680
Everybody look for my dog.
686
00:19:16,520 –> 00:19:17,560
And in this case,
687
00:19:17,640 –> 00:19:22,440
it helped the police gather the data they needed
688
00:19:23,640 –> 00:19:24,640
ring cam footage,
689
00:19:25,080 –> 00:19:26,040
things like that.
690
00:19:26,040 –> 00:19:26,520
People were,
691
00:19:26,520 –> 00:19:30,120
they had the FBI set up a link or whatever the fuck
692
00:19:30,120 –> 00:19:32,120
to put your footage here or whatever,
693
00:19:32,120 –> 00:19:34,960
if you got any video evidence or audio evidence or
694
00:19:34,960 –> 00:19:35,280
whatever.
695
00:19:35,480 –> 00:19:36,600
But at the same time,
696
00:19:36,760 –> 00:19:39,000
they were inundated with that shit as well.
697
00:19:39,000 –> 00:19:40,920
So the few things they got from that,
698
00:19:41,400 –> 00:19:43,160
evidentiary-wise or whatever,
699
00:19:43,800 –> 00:19:45,480
was buried in just mounds of shit.
700
00:19:45,480 –> 00:19:48,200
They had a whole team of FBI people that had to sort
701
00:19:48,200 –> 00:19:48,840
through this shit,
702
00:19:49,080 –> 00:19:50,920
and that’s a difficult process as well.
703
00:19:50,920 –> 00:19:52,600
But at the end of the day,
704
00:19:52,960 –> 00:19:53,520
what the
705
00:19:53,600 –> 00:19:56,040
social media mob did was sort of twofold.
706
00:19:56,520 –> 00:19:57,560
It’s a blessing and a curse.
707
00:19:57,960 –> 00:19:59,680
They kept the story alive.
708
00:19:59,680 –> 00:20:01,080
This is why Steve Gonzalves,
709
00:20:01,080 –> 00:20:01,840
Kaylee Gonzalves,
710
00:20:01,840 –> 00:20:02,520
one of the victims,
711
00:20:02,520 –> 00:20:04,680
her father kept going on Fox News,
712
00:20:04,680 –> 00:20:05,480
going on CNN,
713
00:20:05,480 –> 00:20:05,760
going up,
714
00:20:05,960 –> 00:20:07,240
going on whoever would have him,
715
00:20:07,880 –> 00:20:09,400
primarily Fox and News Nation,
716
00:20:11,000 –> 00:20:12,120
and talking,
717
00:20:12,120 –> 00:20:14,120
talking, talking to keep the eyes on the case.
718
00:20:14,520 –> 00:20:16,440
I think he rightly understood that the more media on
719
00:20:16,440 –> 00:20:16,840
the case,
720
00:20:16,840 –> 00:20:17,960
the more they had to do it right,
721
00:20:17,960 –> 00:20:20,200
the more they had to feel this pressure like,
722
00:20:20,200 –> 00:20:21,080
fuck, we’re losing,
723
00:20:21,840 –> 00:20:22,840
and then find this guy,
724
00:20:22,840 –> 00:20:23,120
right?
725
00:20:23,160 –> 00:20:23,480
Okay.
726
00:20:23,640 –> 00:20:24,520
At the same time,
727
00:20:24,760 –> 00:20:25,360
like you mentioned,
728
00:20:25,360 –> 00:20:25,960
the professor,
729
00:20:25,960 –> 00:20:27,800
Rebecca, Rebecca,
730
00:20:27,960 –> 00:20:33,240
she’s she was fucking demolished online.
731
00:20:33,240 –> 00:20:37,640
She was she was she was dog piled on by people who
732
00:20:38,120 –> 00:20:41,520
claimed that she was having an affair with one of
733
00:20:41,520 –> 00:20:42,360
the students.
734
00:20:42,680 –> 00:20:45,040
This led to some sort of love triangle and all this
735
00:20:45,040 –> 00:20:45,160
shit.
736
00:20:45,160 –> 00:20:46,360
But what this came from,
737
00:20:47,000 –> 00:20:47,360
but what?
738
00:20:47,800 –> 00:20:48,800
No, but here’s the thing.
739
00:20:48,800 –> 00:20:51,000
What this came from was this TikToker,
740
00:20:51,160 –> 00:20:51,800
this fucking,
741
00:20:52,760 –> 00:20:53,520
what do you call those people?
742
00:20:53,600 –> 00:20:56,040
people who can see the future or read minds or see.
743
00:20:56,440 –> 00:20:58,680
Yeah, this psychic TikToker,
744
00:20:58,680 –> 00:20:59,480
bullshitter,
745
00:20:59,800 –> 00:21:03,920
said, I see that this was this professor and
746
00:21:05,680 –> 00:21:08,440
And I think she did it because of this love triangle
747
00:21:08,440 –> 00:21:09,320
thing and whatever.
748
00:21:09,480 –> 00:21:10,040
All of a sudden,
749
00:21:10,040 –> 00:21:12,440
it’s Thanksgiving weekend and this professor’s getting
750
00:21:12,440 –> 00:21:15,000
death threats from Aryan Nation people in northern
751
00:21:15,000 –> 00:21:15,640
Idaho and shit,
752
00:21:15,920 –> 00:21:18,680
because the TikToker said she was queer because she
753
00:21:18,680 –> 00:21:20,600
happens to teach a gender class.
754
00:21:20,960 –> 00:21:21,240
Okay, wait,
755
00:21:21,280 –> 00:21:23,480
what’s the name of this clairvoyant on TikTok?
756
00:21:24,440 –> 00:21:25,000
I don’t know.
757
00:21:25,000 –> 00:21:27,680
I think she might have dropped off because she’s facing
758
00:21:27,680 –> 00:21:28,680
a number of losses.
759
00:21:28,800 –> 00:21:31,320
Well, I was going to have my assistant look up that
760
00:21:31,320 –> 00:21:32,280
account, but.
761
00:21:32,840 –> 00:21:34,160
Yeah, I don’t remember her name,
762
00:21:34,160 –> 00:21:35,080
man, to be honest.
763
00:21:36,120 –> 00:21:37,800
I know that she’s a little crazy.
764
00:21:38,040 –> 00:21:40,040
I talked to Rebecca multiple times,
765
00:21:40,160 –> 00:21:41,480
a couple hours at a time.
766
00:21:41,640 –> 00:21:43,640
She was crying for half the conversations.
767
00:21:43,640 –> 00:21:44,360
Is she suing?
768
00:21:44,760 –> 00:21:45,640
Yeah, she’s suing.
769
00:21:45,640 –> 00:21:47,000
In fact, that’s clairvoyant.
770
00:21:47,880 –> 00:21:49,000
She’s suing the clairvoyant.
771
00:21:49,000 –> 00:21:51,080
The clairvoyant is the clairvoyant didn’t see that
772
00:21:51,080 –> 00:21:51,440
coming.
773
00:21:51,640 –> 00:21:54,040
The clairvoyant counter sued for some shit.
774
00:21:54,360 –> 00:21:55,240
And then, I mean,
775
00:21:55,240 –> 00:21:56,120
it was insane.
776
00:21:56,200 –> 00:21:57,400
It was fucking insane.
777
00:21:57,400 –> 00:22:01,120
And the fact is absolutely 000 proof.
778
00:22:01,560 –> 00:22:05,320
The so-called clairvoyant was doing this shit for clout
779
00:22:05,320 –> 00:22:08,680
and clicks and whatever and ruining somebody’s life.
780
00:22:08,880 –> 00:22:10,160
Like something’s going to have,
781
00:22:10,200 –> 00:22:11,160
it has to happen,
782
00:22:11,160 –> 00:22:11,960
will happen,
783
00:22:11,960 –> 00:22:13,000
like with social media.
784
00:22:14,080 –> 00:22:14,600
For instance,
785
00:22:14,600 –> 00:22:17,000
let’s say you’re a media member,
786
00:22:17,040 –> 00:22:19,000
and they like to go off and shit.
787
00:22:19,240 –> 00:22:21,320
But in their little check mark thing,
788
00:22:21,960 –> 00:22:22,360
they say,
789
00:22:23,480 –> 00:22:27,000
I cover true crime for the Washington Post.
790
00:22:28,080 –> 00:22:30,520
And if you start just lipping off as yourself,
791
00:22:30,520 –> 00:22:35,640
right, they can not only sue you for libel,
792
00:22:36,960 –> 00:22:39,720
They can sue your company because you’re presenting
793
00:22:39,720 –> 00:22:41,680
yourself as that’s an official account.
794
00:22:42,040 –> 00:22:43,000
That’ll come,
795
00:22:43,040 –> 00:22:43,880
I’m pretty sure.
796
00:22:44,200 –> 00:22:45,320
I’m just waiting for it to come.
797
00:22:45,560 –> 00:22:47,080
Because people aren’t careful.
798
00:22:48,160 –> 00:22:49,160
So you mean if I like,
799
00:22:49,160 –> 00:22:51,920
if I should say I represent,
800
00:22:52,360 –> 00:22:53,560
I do true crime stories,
801
00:22:53,560 –> 00:22:57,320
then pick a company that I hate and post it and then
802
00:22:57,320 –> 00:22:58,520
just start lipping off.
803
00:22:58,680 –> 00:22:58,840
Right.
804
00:22:58,840 –> 00:22:59,960
Because they’re not going to come up.
805
00:22:59,960 –> 00:23:01,760
Well, then we’ll go to court and then a company say
806
00:23:01,760 –> 00:23:02,600
you don’t work for us,
807
00:23:02,600 –> 00:23:04,440
but if your publisher is HarperCollins,
808
00:23:05,080 –> 00:23:06,880
I’m the unauthor for HarperCollins,
809
00:23:06,880 –> 00:23:08,120
and then you start doing that shit.
810
00:23:08,440 –> 00:23:09,960
Yeah, it’s got the potential.
811
00:23:10,040 –> 00:23:10,760
So anyway,
812
00:23:11,240 –> 00:23:12,520
bringing it back here.
813
00:23:13,680 –> 00:23:15,080
Back to the Oakland County Child,
814
00:23:15,080 –> 00:23:15,360
by the way,
815
00:23:15,360 –> 00:23:16,080
what was the name?
816
00:23:16,280 –> 00:23:18,040
You do a lot of documentaries too,
817
00:23:18,040 –> 00:23:19,720
like Children of the Snow,
818
00:23:19,720 –> 00:23:20,520
that was on Hulu,
819
00:23:20,520 –> 00:23:20,840
right?
820
00:23:20,920 –> 00:23:21,480
Yeah, that was it.
821
00:23:21,480 –> 00:23:23,720
Millions, millions of views on that.
822
00:23:24,520 –> 00:23:25,800
Just a big hunger here.
823
00:23:25,920 –> 00:23:26,600
And to me,
824
00:23:26,920 –> 00:23:27,360
the Oakland,
825
00:23:28,040 –> 00:23:29,080
your book’s convincing.
826
00:23:29,560 –> 00:23:29,800
right?
827
00:23:29,800 –> 00:23:30,720
And others I know,
828
00:23:30,720 –> 00:23:31,480
like George Hunter,
829
00:23:31,640 –> 00:23:34,280
they agree with your theory that it wasn’t one person.
830
00:23:34,520 –> 00:23:35,320
It was a cabal.
831
00:23:35,480 –> 00:23:37,960
Some scummy people and some very,
832
00:23:37,960 –> 00:23:39,400
very rich,
833
00:23:39,560 –> 00:23:40,320
prominent,
834
00:23:40,520 –> 00:23:42,040
old money type of people.
835
00:23:42,120 –> 00:23:42,360
Right?
836
00:23:42,360 –> 00:23:44,040
It was like our Epstein.
837
00:23:45,000 –> 00:23:46,040
They had their own island too,
838
00:23:46,040 –> 00:23:46,520
didn’t they?
839
00:23:46,760 –> 00:23:47,400
Yeah, man.
840
00:23:47,480 –> 00:23:47,640
Yeah.
841
00:23:47,640 –> 00:23:48,760
Do you want me to talk about this now?
842
00:23:48,840 –> 00:23:50,600
Cause you listen and you won’t stop.
843
00:23:50,600 –> 00:23:51,800
No, and I want to know what,
844
00:23:51,880 –> 00:23:52,080
you know,
845
00:23:52,280 –> 00:23:53,920
we’re going to film a little bit and I want to know
846
00:23:53,920 –> 00:23:54,920
what you’re doing in town.
847
00:23:55,480 –> 00:24:00,120
I’m in town because after getting the Kill Jar published,
848
00:24:00,120 –> 00:24:01,120
I had, as you know,
849
00:24:01,120 –> 00:24:01,880
when you get a book out,
850
00:24:01,880 –> 00:24:03,480
you start to get messages from people.
851
00:24:03,720 –> 00:24:05,360
I got hundreds and hundreds of messages.
852
00:24:05,360 –> 00:24:06,920
Yeah, Brad Pitt called me motherfucker.
853
00:24:07,480 –> 00:24:08,760
I probably called you motherfucker,
854
00:24:09,240 –> 00:24:11,960
but I think he’s a liberal,
855
00:24:12,040 –> 00:24:12,680
lib liberal,
856
00:24:12,920 –> 00:24:14,280
but I don’t really know.
857
00:24:14,440 –> 00:24:16,840
You probably called Brad.
858
00:24:17,720 –> 00:24:18,040
He,
859
00:24:18,840 –> 00:24:20,480
I was about to talk about Brad Pitt now.
860
00:24:20,760 –> 00:24:21,720
He got me sidetracked.
861
00:24:22,360 –> 00:24:23,480
He is a gorgeous man.
862
00:24:23,480 –> 00:24:25,040
He was my first Hollywood crush.
863
00:24:25,040 –> 00:24:26,280
You don’t got legs like that.
864
00:24:26,280 –> 00:24:26,640
God damn.
865
00:24:29,640 –> 00:24:30,680
After writing the Kill Jar,
866
00:24:30,680 –> 00:24:32,360
I got all these messages from people saying,
867
00:24:32,360 –> 00:24:36,200
hey, I was almost abducted over at Seven Mile or whatever.
868
00:24:36,200 –> 00:24:38,760
Hey, my uncle lived down by the cast and raped,
869
00:24:38,920 –> 00:24:39,160
you know,
870
00:24:39,160 –> 00:24:39,840
my friends.
871
00:24:39,840 –> 00:24:42,640
And hey, there was a pedophile lived up the street
872
00:24:42,640 –> 00:24:44,920
from me down by Jumbo’s or hey,
873
00:24:45,080 –> 00:24:45,480
you know,
874
00:24:45,480 –> 00:24:46,160
all this stuff.
875
00:24:46,160 –> 00:24:47,000
And like, I mean,
876
00:24:47,000 –> 00:24:48,000
just nonstop.
877
00:24:48,000 –> 00:24:49,320
And then Children of the Snow.
878
00:24:49,480 –> 00:24:51,920
And I started getting messages from people around the
879
00:24:51,920 –> 00:24:52,200
world.
880
00:24:52,200 –> 00:24:53,640
I mean, for some weird reason,
881
00:24:53,640 –> 00:24:56,040
it was like the number one show for a month in Norway
882
00:24:56,040 –> 00:24:56,560
or something.
883
00:24:56,840 –> 00:24:57,960
So like, from,
884
00:24:57,960 –> 00:24:58,240
you know,
885
00:24:58,240 –> 00:24:58,760
I’m just saying,
886
00:24:59,040 –> 00:25:00,760
So you get these little blips around the world and
887
00:25:00,760 –> 00:25:01,160
you’re like,
888
00:25:01,240 –> 00:25:05,360
okay, so people be messaging me from Germany or Amsterdam
889
00:25:05,360 –> 00:25:05,840
or whatever,
890
00:25:05,840 –> 00:25:06,200
talking.
891
00:25:06,200 –> 00:25:06,840
Isn’t that great,
892
00:25:06,880 –> 00:25:07,080
though?
893
00:25:07,240 –> 00:25:07,960
It’s kind of cool.
894
00:25:08,040 –> 00:25:09,800
I got 3 bestsellers in Poland.
895
00:25:10,200 –> 00:25:10,880
Yeah, I don’t.
896
00:25:10,880 –> 00:25:12,640
They read the most of anybody in the world,
897
00:25:12,640 –> 00:25:13,480
which is awesome.
898
00:25:13,640 –> 00:25:14,520
She moved to Poland.
899
00:25:15,280 –> 00:25:16,200
I’m going to go.
900
00:25:17,560 –> 00:25:22,760
So I started realizing that one of the loose ends in
901
00:25:22,760 –> 00:25:23,960
my book was really the
902
00:25:24,560 –> 00:25:26,800
what Children of the Snow made the most out of,
903
00:25:26,800 –> 00:25:29,240
which was Frank Sheldon and his island,
904
00:25:29,240 –> 00:25:30,200
North Fox Island.
905
00:25:31,720 –> 00:25:36,680
Frank Sheldon was a descendant of Michigan’s biggest
906
00:25:36,680 –> 00:25:37,080
money.
907
00:25:37,320 –> 00:25:38,040
We’re not talking,
908
00:25:38,040 –> 00:25:40,280
oh, he had a bunch of money.
909
00:25:40,360 –> 00:25:42,200
His family developed Grosse Pointe.
910
00:25:43,080 –> 00:25:44,440
His great,
911
00:25:44,440 –> 00:25:47,960
great ancestor was Governor Alger of Michigan,
912
00:25:48,200 –> 00:25:51,320
also Secretary of War during the,
913
00:25:51,400 –> 00:25:53,640
I think it was Civil War or something like that.
914
00:25:53,880 –> 00:25:54,480
Also,
915
00:25:55,200 –> 00:25:56,440
another of his relatives,
916
00:25:56,440 –> 00:25:57,600
the Elders and the Sheldons,
917
00:25:57,600 –> 00:25:59,240
were two families that came together.
918
00:25:59,480 –> 00:26:02,280
Frank Sheldon comes from that merging.
919
00:26:02,600 –> 00:26:05,160
And the other,
920
00:26:05,160 –> 00:26:06,080
one of the other great,
921
00:26:06,080 –> 00:26:09,760
great whatevers was put up for president of the United
922
00:26:09,760 –> 00:26:10,200
States.
923
00:26:10,520 –> 00:26:12,320
I mean, we’re talking about the biggest money in the
924
00:26:12,320 –> 00:26:13,080
fucking country
925
00:26:13,640 –> 00:26:15,960
and certainly the biggest money in the state of Michigan.
926
00:26:15,960 –> 00:26:17,240
Not to go off on a tangent,
927
00:26:17,240 –> 00:26:18,760
but how did they make their money?
928
00:26:19,080 –> 00:26:20,760
They made their money with everything.
929
00:26:20,760 –> 00:26:22,840
that war museum that’s sitting over there by the water?
930
00:26:23,000 –> 00:26:23,160
Yeah.
931
00:26:23,160 –> 00:26:23,960
The big ass water.
932
00:26:23,960 –> 00:26:25,040
That was the Alger House.
933
00:26:25,040 –> 00:26:25,800
That was their home.
934
00:26:27,560 –> 00:26:28,760
They had lumber,
935
00:26:28,760 –> 00:26:29,560
they had oil,
936
00:26:29,560 –> 00:26:30,520
they had land,
937
00:26:30,600 –> 00:26:32,680
they developed half of this fucking city.
938
00:26:32,760 –> 00:26:33,640
They hung out with,
939
00:26:33,960 –> 00:26:35,560
I forget what his title was,
940
00:26:35,560 –> 00:26:36,280
but Cass,
941
00:26:36,360 –> 00:26:37,000
the guy Cass.
942
00:26:37,200 –> 00:26:37,800
Lewis Cass.
943
00:26:37,800 –> 00:26:39,720
Yeah, they were all together.
944
00:26:40,120 –> 00:26:42,840
Yeah, they all owned everything,
945
00:26:42,840 –> 00:26:43,160
man.
946
00:26:43,240 –> 00:26:45,720
And in liquor,
947
00:26:46,200 –> 00:26:47,080
they were bootleggers,
948
00:26:47,080 –> 00:26:48,120
they were all kinds of shit,
949
00:26:48,120 –> 00:26:48,280
man.
950
00:26:48,520 –> 00:26:49,800
They fucking did everything,
951
00:26:49,960 –> 00:26:51,800
and they still to this
952
00:26:52,480 –> 00:26:53,000
To this day,
953
00:26:53,000 –> 00:26:53,440
no doubt,
954
00:26:53,440 –> 00:26:54,040
do everything.
955
00:26:54,040 –> 00:26:57,720
There’s Austin Frank coming into the Oakland County
956
00:26:57,720 –> 00:26:59,480
child killer is Frank.
957
00:26:59,640 –> 00:27:02,200
So Frank Sheldon is a little bit of a nut.
958
00:27:02,840 –> 00:27:04,800
He’s the little the black sheep of the family,
959
00:27:04,800 –> 00:27:05,800
kind of, so to speak.
960
00:27:06,040 –> 00:27:07,640
But with his brother Alger,
961
00:27:07,720 –> 00:27:10,200
who was in high society in Detroit,
962
00:27:10,600 –> 00:27:12,120
who everybody who’s been around,
963
00:27:12,120 –> 00:27:14,680
anybody in their 80s or if they were alive,
964
00:27:14,680 –> 00:27:16,040
110 or whatever the fuck,
965
00:27:16,120 –> 00:27:18,120
they all know who the fuck Alger Sheldon is.
966
00:27:18,920 –> 00:27:21,920
Frank Sheldon bought Fox Island for like 23 grand or
967
00:27:21,920 –> 00:27:22,400
something like that.
968
00:27:22,480 –> 00:27:23,320
that in the 60s.
969
00:27:23,480 –> 00:27:24,960
Now the state owns it.
970
00:27:25,160 –> 00:27:25,680
But back then,
971
00:27:25,680 –> 00:27:27,120
he and his brother coast.
972
00:27:27,120 –> 00:27:27,960
Which is Lake Michigan,
973
00:27:27,960 –> 00:27:28,200
right?
974
00:27:28,200 –> 00:27:30,800
Yeah, that’s up off the Leland Peninsula.
975
00:27:30,800 –> 00:27:31,800
It’s off of Charlevoix,
976
00:27:31,880 –> 00:27:32,520
how you fly there.
977
00:27:32,520 –> 00:27:36,360
We took a boat last week to there from Leland.
978
00:27:36,600 –> 00:27:40,720
But I realized that I didn’t do nothing about Frank
979
00:27:40,720 –> 00:27:42,960
Sheldon in the kill jar because he absconded from
980
00:27:42,960 –> 00:27:43,400
justice.
981
00:27:43,400 –> 00:27:44,720
The feds came in on the island.
982
00:27:44,720 –> 00:27:46,480
They realized he was running a pornography mill.
983
00:27:46,480 –> 00:27:49,720
They realized also that it was tied to Father Bud’s
984
00:27:49,720 –> 00:27:51,400
Boys Farm in Montego,
985
00:27:51,400 –> 00:27:51,960
Tennessee,
986
00:27:52,040 –> 00:27:52,360
which was
987
00:27:52,480 –> 00:27:53,640
another pornography mill.
988
00:27:53,880 –> 00:27:54,680
You don’t have to know,
989
00:27:54,760 –> 00:27:57,440
you don’t have to know anything about what I’m saying
990
00:27:57,440 –> 00:28:00,160
except for the fact that here in this part of the
991
00:28:00,160 –> 00:28:03,160
country, Frank Sheldon was making child pornography
992
00:28:03,320 –> 00:28:05,240
by pretending that he was running a nature camp for
993
00:28:05,240 –> 00:28:08,320
boys taking underprivileged kids from Port Huron and
994
00:28:08,320 –> 00:28:11,160
Detroit and Ann Arbor and wherever the fuck their
995
00:28:11,160 –> 00:28:14,080
parents would sign permission slips and
996
00:28:14,720 –> 00:28:16,280
He’d go to the fucking island with them.
997
00:28:16,280 –> 00:28:18,920
They’d land on this island 25 miles from the shore
998
00:28:19,120 –> 00:28:20,040
of Michigan,
999
00:28:20,200 –> 00:28:22,200
25 miles out into Lake Michigan,
1000
00:28:22,360 –> 00:28:24,680
nowhere to fucking go for 10 days at a stretch.
1001
00:28:25,000 –> 00:28:26,280
And they would get there.
1002
00:28:26,360 –> 00:28:28,280
And the very first thing that would be told to them
1003
00:28:28,280 –> 00:28:29,040
is, take off your clothes.
1004
00:28:29,040 –> 00:28:30,760
We’re going to run around on the island,
1005
00:28:30,760 –> 00:28:31,320
on the beach,
1006
00:28:31,480 –> 00:28:32,520
and we’re going to swim,
1007
00:28:32,680 –> 00:28:34,760
and we’re going to be natural,
1008
00:28:34,760 –> 00:28:35,720
natural here.
1009
00:28:35,960 –> 00:28:38,360
And everything they did was filmed.
1010
00:28:39,000 –> 00:28:40,280
They were raped and filmed.
1011
00:28:40,280 –> 00:28:41,720
And there’s many survivors.
1012
00:28:41,720 –> 00:28:42,440
And there are many,
1013
00:28:42,440 –> 00:28:43,080
many, many,
1014
00:28:43,080 –> 00:28:43,640
many.
1015
00:28:43,920 –> 00:28:44,600
And look, man,
1016
00:28:44,720 –> 00:28:46,280
And look, anybody in the world could say,
1017
00:28:46,280 –> 00:28:47,400
you could take anybody and say,
1018
00:28:47,400 –> 00:28:48,760
man, he’s spinning all this bullshit.
1019
00:28:49,560 –> 00:28:53,560
No, Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of
1020
00:28:53,560 –> 00:28:55,560
police documents from the Michigan State Police,
1021
00:28:55,560 –> 00:28:56,600
from the FBI.
1022
00:28:56,920 –> 00:28:58,840
Everybody knew what was going on with Frank Sheldon
1023
00:28:59,320 –> 00:29:00,520
at a certain point.
1024
00:29:01,240 –> 00:29:03,560
Then Frank Sheldon got tipped off before he could get
1025
00:29:03,560 –> 00:29:04,000
arrested.
1026
00:29:04,000 –> 00:29:06,160
He ran to many places in the States.
1027
00:29:06,160 –> 00:29:06,960
He ran to Antigua,
1028
00:29:06,960 –> 00:29:07,720
all this plus shit.
1029
00:29:07,800 –> 00:29:09,320
He ended up in the Netherlands.
1030
00:29:10,200 –> 00:29:11,520
And I wrote that book.
1031
00:29:11,520 –> 00:29:12,720
I wrote it off at that point.
1032
00:29:12,720 –> 00:29:13,080
I said, well,
1033
00:29:13,080 –> 00:29:13,800
he got away.
1034
00:29:13,800 –> 00:29:14,600
He got away.
1035
00:29:15,120 –> 00:29:19,240
And then over the Netherlands saw the show and it picks
1036
00:29:19,240 –> 00:29:20,120
up again.
1037
00:29:20,480 –> 00:29:22,680
And some of these motherfuckers start messaging me
1038
00:29:22,680 –> 00:29:25,040
going, you know,
1039
00:29:25,040 –> 00:29:26,000
that shit didn’t stop.
1040
00:29:26,000 –> 00:29:26,880
And I thought to myself,
1041
00:29:27,400 –> 00:29:28,360
and I thought to myself,
1042
00:29:28,686 –> 00:29:29,326
fuck.
1043
00:29:29,486 –> 00:29:30,766
I really dropped the ball here.
1044
00:29:30,766 –> 00:29:31,726
Like, in fact,
1045
00:29:31,726 –> 00:29:33,966
I wrote a screenplay about,
1046
00:29:34,006 –> 00:29:34,766
and you’re in it,
1047
00:29:34,766 –> 00:29:35,166
Charlie.
1048
00:29:35,886 –> 00:29:36,846
I wrote a screenplay.
1049
00:29:36,846 –> 00:29:37,726
I didn’t do shit.
1050
00:29:38,046 –> 00:29:39,006
I wrote a screenplay.
1051
00:29:39,086 –> 00:29:40,726
I started to sense I dropped the ball.
1052
00:29:40,726 –> 00:29:42,126
I started to sense I dropped the ball.
1053
00:29:42,606 –> 00:29:45,766
So by not following Frank Sheldon and where he went
1054
00:29:45,766 –> 00:29:47,006
in after he left.
1055
00:29:47,406 –> 00:29:49,006
And I wrote a screenplay about a guy,
1056
00:29:49,166 –> 00:29:51,086
a guy who wrote The Kill Jar,
1057
00:29:51,246 –> 00:29:53,166
who comes back from prison because he got set up by
1058
00:29:53,166 –> 00:29:53,886
the DPD.
1059
00:29:54,046 –> 00:29:56,526
He comes back from prison and gets involved in another
1060
00:29:56,526 –> 00:29:58,126
active serial investigation.
1061
00:29:58,526 –> 00:30:01,806
tied to the Oakland County child killings because he
1062
00:30:01,806 –> 00:30:03,006
fucking dropped the ball.
1063
00:30:03,726 –> 00:30:05,486
And anyway,
1064
00:30:05,486 –> 00:30:06,046
the point is,
1065
00:30:06,126 –> 00:30:06,606
you’re in it,
1066
00:30:06,606 –> 00:30:06,926
you’re in it.
1067
00:30:06,926 –> 00:30:09,766
Because I needed a journalist to feed my character
1068
00:30:09,766 –> 00:30:10,446
information,
1069
00:30:10,446 –> 00:30:10,846
you know?
1070
00:30:11,006 –> 00:30:13,326
So I wrote Charlie’s working at the Coney and,
1071
00:30:13,326 –> 00:30:13,606
you know,
1072
00:30:13,606 –> 00:30:13,966
whatever.
1073
00:30:14,286 –> 00:30:16,806
And I would have eventually changed the name or something
1074
00:30:16,806 –> 00:30:17,886
if somebody bought it.
1075
00:30:18,206 –> 00:30:18,846
But my point is,
1076
00:30:19,086 –> 00:30:20,206
already five years ago,
1077
00:30:20,206 –> 00:30:21,486
I was thinking I dropped the ball.
1078
00:30:21,526 –> 00:30:22,246
And then this kid,
1079
00:30:22,246 –> 00:30:23,086
this YouTuber,
1080
00:30:23,086 –> 00:30:23,886
Colin Browen,
1081
00:30:24,766 –> 00:30:26,286
he got ahold of me and said,
1082
00:30:26,366 –> 00:30:28,206
I want to interview you about Fox Island.
1083
00:30:29,406 –> 00:30:31,966
We did a three-part or a three-hour documentary for
1084
00:30:31,966 –> 00:30:33,446
YouTube, just went straight to YouTube.
1085
00:30:33,886 –> 00:30:34,486
In like a week,
1086
00:30:34,486 –> 00:30:35,806
it got a million and a half views.
1087
00:30:36,046 –> 00:30:36,766
And he said,
1088
00:30:37,006 –> 00:30:39,166
I mean, he’s got like 5 million social followers or
1089
00:30:39,166 –> 00:30:40,126
some crazy shit.
1090
00:30:40,726 –> 00:30:41,646
And he said,
1091
00:30:41,646 –> 00:30:45,166
hey, how would you feel about doing a six-part series
1092
00:30:45,726 –> 00:30:46,926
following Frank Sheldon?
1093
00:30:47,326 –> 00:30:49,806
And he’s still alive at the time.
1094
00:30:50,046 –> 00:30:51,646
Frank Sheldon’s not following his trail.
1095
00:30:51,646 –> 00:30:53,726
Frank Sheldon allegedly died in 96.
1096
00:30:54,406 –> 00:30:54,766
But he said,
1097
00:30:54,766 –> 00:30:57,366
following the trail because we’re also starting to
1098
00:30:57,366 –> 00:30:59,886
get, I’m starting to get pinged from India and shit.
1099
00:31:00,166 –> 00:31:02,206
Like Frank Sheldon started an orphanage somewhere.
1100
00:31:02,206 –> 00:31:02,766
I’m like, what?
1101
00:31:03,566 –> 00:31:04,926
I’m like, what is going on here,
1102
00:31:04,926 –> 00:31:05,246
man?
1103
00:31:05,246 –> 00:31:06,286
So I said,
1104
00:31:06,366 –> 00:31:07,646
Colin, no,
1105
00:31:07,646 –> 00:31:09,166
I don’t want to deal with any of this shit.
1106
00:31:09,166 –> 00:31:10,446
I’m trying to live my fucking life.
1107
00:31:11,006 –> 00:31:12,286
I don’t want this dark shit.
1108
00:31:12,366 –> 00:31:13,806
Yeah, I don’t want darkness.
1109
00:31:13,806 –> 00:31:15,006
I want to be happy.
1110
00:31:15,006 –> 00:31:18,646
I just want to write true crime novels about four students
1111
00:31:18,646 –> 00:31:19,966
that got their heads cut off.
1112
00:31:19,966 –> 00:31:20,806
Well, that’s what happened,
1113
00:31:20,806 –> 00:31:21,166
dude.
1114
00:31:21,246 –> 00:31:21,886
That’s what happened.
1115
00:31:22,126 –> 00:31:24,326
I that writing that book burned me
1116
00:31:24,606 –> 00:31:27,486
I thought why am I doing this like you are nut man?
1117
00:31:27,566 –> 00:31:29,086
Well, it burned me out,
1118
00:31:29,086 –> 00:31:31,726
you know your personality once it’s because you know
1119
00:31:31,726 –> 00:31:34,526
I met you those many years ago and what?
1120
00:31:35,246 –> 00:31:38,206
How long were you working on just Oakland County child
1121
00:31:38,206 –> 00:31:38,526
killer?
1122
00:31:40,126 –> 00:31:43,806
10 years 10 so you’re the kind of guy when it’s in
1123
00:31:43,806 –> 00:31:46,166
there It’s you’re a dog man.
1124
00:31:46,166 –> 00:31:47,646
Your dog had kneecaps.
1125
00:31:47,646 –> 00:31:49,486
It’s just you can’t let it go.
1126
00:31:49,886 –> 00:31:51,166
So I would embrace this
1127
00:31:51,926 –> 00:31:53,206
I would not be burned out.
1128
00:31:53,726 –> 00:31:59,086
I would finish it because there’s the two big crime
1129
00:31:59,086 –> 00:32:02,526
cases in the history of this state is the Oakland
1130
00:32:02,526 –> 00:32:04,846
County child killer and Jimmy Hoffa.
1131
00:32:05,486 –> 00:32:06,966
And I want to,
1132
00:32:07,806 –> 00:32:10,046
you never really came to the conclusion.
1133
00:32:10,126 –> 00:32:12,526
You never said it in the book as I recall.
1134
00:32:13,086 –> 00:32:13,846
Who did this?
1135
00:32:13,846 –> 00:32:15,726
So Frank’s the ringleader of this?
1136
00:32:15,886 –> 00:32:16,526
Okay, man.
1137
00:32:16,526 –> 00:32:17,806
So I said,
1138
00:32:17,806 –> 00:32:17,966
no.
1139
00:32:18,046 –> 00:32:21,086
I said, I don’t want to work on this shit at all.
1140
00:32:21,086 –> 00:32:22,366
And about six months later,
1141
00:32:22,606 –> 00:32:24,286
had some personal shit happen in my life.
1142
00:32:24,286 –> 00:32:24,766
And I said,
1143
00:32:24,766 –> 00:32:26,766
and something clicked over and I said,
1144
00:32:27,406 –> 00:32:28,046
oh, fuck yeah,
1145
00:32:28,046 –> 00:32:29,726
we’re going to work on this because fuck all these
1146
00:32:29,726 –> 00:32:30,446
motherfuckers.
1147
00:32:30,846 –> 00:32:32,566
And that’s,
1148
00:32:32,566 –> 00:32:33,286
I called them up and said,
1149
00:32:33,286 –> 00:32:34,206
yeah, let’s do this thing.
1150
00:32:34,206 –> 00:32:36,086
So now we’re traveling the globe,
1151
00:32:36,086 –> 00:32:36,686
basically.
1152
00:32:37,406 –> 00:32:39,006
Following the trail of Frank Sheldon.
1153
00:32:39,886 –> 00:32:43,086
We went to Europe together Some of those guys went
1154
00:32:43,086 –> 00:32:43,806
to India.
1155
00:32:43,966 –> 00:32:46,366
We just came back from North Fox Island from Manitou
1156
00:32:46,366 –> 00:32:48,846
Island from Port Huron from everywhere.
1157
00:32:48,846 –> 00:32:51,406
That’s what I’m doing back right now and you could
1158
00:32:51,406 –> 00:32:52,926
say Yeah,
1159
00:32:53,486 –> 00:32:56,286
I’m telling you this cuz you said who’s this Frank
1160
00:32:56,286 –> 00:32:57,246
Sheldon the ringleader?
1161
00:32:58,926 –> 00:33:01,566
Frank Sheldon is just the tip of the fucking iceberg
1162
00:33:01,566 –> 00:33:02,606
man like
1163
00:33:03,646 –> 00:33:04,286
There are,
1164
00:33:05,006 –> 00:33:07,926
if you talk about like the mob family or something
1165
00:33:07,926 –> 00:33:09,326
in the Don or whatever,
1166
00:33:09,566 –> 00:33:11,726
Frank Sheldon I would say is not a Don,
1167
00:33:11,726 –> 00:33:12,606
he’s a capo.
1168
00:33:12,926 –> 00:33:15,646
And the Don would be like fucking,
1169
00:33:16,526 –> 00:33:18,126
I mean, I’m going to say it,
1170
00:33:18,846 –> 00:33:20,646
but people are going to be like,
1171
00:33:20,646 –> 00:33:21,566
oh, it’s just horseshit.
1172
00:33:21,886 –> 00:33:25,806
It’s some sort of version of government entity collusion
1173
00:33:25,806 –> 00:33:26,606
type of shit.
1174
00:33:27,166 –> 00:33:28,126
You look at Diddy,
1175
00:33:28,206 –> 00:33:29,326
you look at Epstein,
1176
00:33:29,446 –> 00:33:31,606
and you look at compromat ideas and shit like that,
1177
00:33:31,606 –> 00:33:32,006
and you think,
1178
00:33:32,006 –> 00:33:34,046
what was the point of all this shit?
1179
00:33:34,246 –> 00:33:36,446
And why do all these motherfuckers get away and whatever?
1180
00:33:36,846 –> 00:33:39,886
I have no doubt in my mind that Frank Sheldon was part
1181
00:33:39,886 –> 00:33:43,566
of some sort of compromat thing because when you look
1182
00:33:43,566 –> 00:33:46,206
at, or at least they were smart enough to get compromat
1183
00:33:46,206 –> 00:33:46,846
on people,
1184
00:33:47,326 –> 00:33:49,966
because when you look at how he got away,
1185
00:33:50,126 –> 00:33:51,406
his fucking attorney
1186
00:33:51,966 –> 00:33:53,846
I think his attorney’s still alive sitting here in
1187
00:33:53,846 –> 00:33:54,286
Detroit.
1188
00:33:54,526 –> 00:33:54,766
L.
1189
00:33:54,766 –> 00:33:55,326
Bennett Young,
1190
00:33:55,326 –> 00:33:56,206
he might have died,
1191
00:33:56,366 –> 00:34:00,766
but his attorney with Alger Sheldon was able to get
1192
00:34:01,006 –> 00:34:03,486
Frank Sheldon all of his fucking family money for
1193
00:34:03,486 –> 00:34:05,926
the rest of Frank Sheldon’s natural life without the
1194
00:34:05,926 –> 00:34:07,726
feds doing any goddamn thing about it.
1195
00:34:07,886 –> 00:34:11,166
There’s conversations we have between the American
1196
00:34:11,166 –> 00:34:14,046
feds and the Europeans saying like,
1197
00:34:14,126 –> 00:34:15,886
hey, we need Frank Sheldon over here.
1198
00:34:15,966 –> 00:34:16,846
And the Europeans saying,
1199
00:34:16,846 –> 00:34:17,686
yeah, we’ll get back to you,
1200
00:34:17,686 –> 00:34:18,286
basically.
1201
00:34:19,086 –> 00:34:20,486
His attorney over-
1202
00:34:20,486 –> 00:34:21,846
But you have documentation of this.
1203
00:34:22,126 –> 00:34:24,446
And why are the American authorities saying we need
1204
00:34:24,446 –> 00:34:25,166
them over here?
1205
00:34:25,646 –> 00:34:27,566
The good American authorities,
1206
00:34:27,566 –> 00:34:28,206
let’s call it,
1207
00:34:28,366 –> 00:34:30,246
let’s say the people who are actually actively trying
1208
00:34:30,246 –> 00:34:31,966
to do their job are saying,
1209
00:34:31,966 –> 00:34:32,286
hey.
1210
00:34:32,686 –> 00:34:33,806
Kind of like the Epstein shit.
1211
00:34:33,886 –> 00:34:36,286
Yeah, but then they get immediately shut down.
1212
00:34:37,166 –> 00:34:40,046
And then every time you can see the shutdown immediately
1213
00:34:40,046 –> 00:34:41,246
going, oh yeah,
1214
00:34:41,246 –> 00:34:42,926
we’ll work on that for you or whatever.
1215
00:34:43,086 –> 00:34:46,446
His attorney over there in Amsterdam was a Dutch senator.
1216
00:34:46,606 –> 00:34:48,606
So that’s his attorney,
1217
00:34:48,806 –> 00:34:49,646
a Dutch senator.
1218
00:34:50,606 –> 00:34:51,806
One of the Algers
1219
00:34:52,006 –> 00:34:56,126
over here was the ambassador to the American ambassador
1220
00:34:56,126 –> 00:34:59,726
to Belgium at the time when Frank Sheldon was living
1221
00:34:59,726 –> 00:35:00,606
in the Netherlands.
1222
00:35:00,846 –> 00:35:02,446
So there’s all kinds of shit.
1223
00:35:02,446 –> 00:35:03,246
You say like,
1224
00:35:03,246 –> 00:35:03,886
oh, you could say,
1225
00:35:03,886 –> 00:35:06,486
well, he’s just politically entrenched and they’re
1226
00:35:06,486 –> 00:35:08,366
not going to they’re not going to send him to justice.
1227
00:35:08,526 –> 00:35:09,446
It’s bigger than that,
1228
00:35:09,446 –> 00:35:12,326
man, because you also have people that were on Frank
1229
00:35:12,326 –> 00:35:12,566
Sheldon.
1230
00:35:12,686 –> 00:35:14,126
You know, speaking of journalists,
1231
00:35:14,366 –> 00:35:15,766
you got a journalist,
1232
00:35:15,766 –> 00:35:16,446
Marilyn Wright,
1233
00:35:16,446 –> 00:35:17,326
in Traverse City.
1234
00:35:17,486 –> 00:35:19,646
She broke most of this fucking Frank Sheldon case.
1235
00:35:19,886 –> 00:35:21,326
She’s just a 50 year old
1236
00:35:22,446 –> 00:35:25,246
short, old lady and old at the time.
1237
00:35:25,246 –> 00:35:26,406
I’m 10 years younger than me.
1238
00:35:26,406 –> 00:35:29,246
Hey man, I mean back then people got old quicker I
1239
00:35:29,246 –> 00:35:30,006
think they didn’t have.
1240
00:35:30,006 –> 00:35:30,526
Oh that’s true.
1241
00:35:30,606 –> 00:35:34,126
You know and she’s and she’s breaking this shit about
1242
00:35:34,126 –> 00:35:35,486
a national porn syndicate.
1243
00:35:36,246 –> 00:35:37,726
From Traverse City Record Eagle,
1244
00:35:37,726 –> 00:35:39,686
she’s writing stories that the Detroit News won’t
1245
00:35:39,686 –> 00:35:42,766
cover, that the fucking Boston Globe won’t cover,
1246
00:35:42,766 –> 00:35:44,046
that the New York Times won’t cover.
1247
00:35:44,446 –> 00:35:45,806
She’s writing these stories.
1248
00:35:45,966 –> 00:35:49,366
They have a Senate judiciary hearing on child pornography
1249
00:35:49,366 –> 00:35:52,326
and child rape because of her stories in Traverse
1250
00:35:52,326 –> 00:35:52,926
City Eagle.
1251
00:35:53,086 –> 00:35:55,486
This happened in 1977 or 78,
1252
00:35:55,486 –> 00:35:56,126
the judiciary.
1253
00:35:56,606 –> 00:35:57,166
Yeah, man.
1254
00:35:57,326 –> 00:35:57,806
Yeah, man.
1255
00:35:57,886 –> 00:35:58,926
Because of her stories.
1256
00:35:59,006 –> 00:36:01,166
And they pull all these fucking pedophiles who are
1257
00:36:01,166 –> 00:36:03,166
already in prison to testify.
1258
00:36:04,286 –> 00:36:06,526
not just testify,
1259
00:36:06,526 –> 00:36:08,126
but to not just pedophiles,
1260
00:36:08,126 –> 00:36:10,446
I mean, but pedophile is part of a pornography ring.
1261
00:36:10,526 –> 00:36:11,326
Not just pedophiles,
1262
00:36:11,326 –> 00:36:12,686
because there’s pedophiles everywhere.
1263
00:36:13,646 –> 00:36:14,606
Part of a pornography ring.
1264
00:36:14,686 –> 00:36:16,446
They call him this guy Jerry Richards,
1265
00:36:16,526 –> 00:36:18,126
who was a gym teacher in Port Huron,
1266
00:36:18,366 –> 00:36:20,286
and he draws them a fucking map.
1267
00:36:21,726 –> 00:36:24,646
this big on a piece of paper with little circles with
1268
00:36:24,646 –> 00:36:27,566
little names in little circles and little names of
1269
00:36:27,566 –> 00:36:29,646
organ and those names are organizations around the
1270
00:36:29,646 –> 00:36:30,126
country.
1271
00:36:30,206 –> 00:36:32,886
And some of those organizations are funded by some
1272
00:36:32,886 –> 00:36:33,966
of our politicians,
1273
00:36:34,206 –> 00:36:35,446
judges, doctors,
1274
00:36:35,446 –> 00:36:36,126
attorneys,
1275
00:36:36,286 –> 00:36:37,166
all kinds of people,
1276
00:36:37,166 –> 00:36:37,886
business owners,
1277
00:36:37,886 –> 00:36:39,006
captains of the industry,
1278
00:36:39,406 –> 00:36:40,286
all these fucking,
1279
00:36:40,606 –> 00:36:42,526
he says, here’s what it is,
1280
00:36:42,526 –> 00:36:43,886
little gym teacher in Port Huron.
1281
00:36:44,366 –> 00:36:48,446
And everybody takes it seriously.
1282
00:36:48,846 –> 00:36:50,366
Everybody at the time.
1283
00:36:50,366 –> 00:36:51,166
Nobody says,
1284
00:36:51,606 –> 00:36:52,006
that’s not true,
1285
00:36:52,006 –> 00:36:54,486
because what they can do is they can call over a Tennessee
1286
00:36:54,486 –> 00:36:55,766
and go, things like,
1287
00:36:55,806 –> 00:36:56,406
was there a boy,
1288
00:36:56,406 –> 00:36:58,326
what’s this boy’s farm Tennessee shit he’s talking
1289
00:36:58,326 –> 00:36:58,606
about?
1290
00:36:58,766 –> 00:37:00,366
And the feds over there are going,
1291
00:37:00,366 –> 00:37:02,686
yeah, we just busted that shit or whatever.
1292
00:37:02,926 –> 00:37:05,486
And he’s saying they’re all interconnected through
1293
00:37:05,486 –> 00:37:07,886
political weavings.
1294
00:37:08,126 –> 00:37:08,526
And
1295
00:37:10,406 –> 00:37:11,486
He seems to be right.
1296
00:37:11,646 –> 00:37:13,326
So nobody,
1297
00:37:13,406 –> 00:37:14,606
nobody dismisses it,
1298
00:37:14,766 –> 00:37:16,366
but nobody follows up on it.
1299
00:37:16,366 –> 00:37:17,246
And there’s the rug.
1300
00:37:17,246 –> 00:37:17,566
Nobody.
1301
00:37:17,566 –> 00:37:18,286
Yeah, bro.
1302
00:37:18,686 –> 00:37:20,046
1976, 97.
1303
00:37:20,046 –> 00:37:20,846
You can Google right now.
1304
00:37:20,846 –> 00:37:21,566
Anybody can do this.
1305
00:37:21,966 –> 00:37:24,566
Something like Senate Judiciary hearings on child pornography.
1306
00:37:24,566 –> 00:37:25,006
What year?
1307
00:37:25,486 –> 00:37:27,246
1976 or 77?
1308
00:37:27,326 –> 00:37:28,526
It’s 1977.
1309
00:37:29,086 –> 00:37:33,286
When did the Oakland County child murder?
1310
00:37:34,046 –> 00:37:35,486
Yeah, 76 and 77.
1311
00:37:35,486 –> 00:37:36,126
The judiciary,
1312
00:37:36,126 –> 00:37:37,366
the judiciary,
1313
00:37:37,486 –> 00:37:40,126
the judiciary meeting might have happened in 78 at
1314
00:37:40,126 –> 00:37:40,846
the latest.
1315
00:37:41,086 –> 00:37:41,406
But I mean,
1316
00:37:41,406 –> 00:37:44,206
I just can’t remember whether it was end of 77.
1317
00:37:44,286 –> 00:37:45,326
Has the Sheldon family,
1318
00:37:45,326 –> 00:37:47,806
have you been able to talk to anybody in that family?
1319
00:37:47,886 –> 00:37:48,206
No, man.
1320
00:37:48,206 –> 00:37:48,766
Have you tried?
1321
00:37:48,926 –> 00:37:49,686
Yeah, we’ve tried.
1322
00:37:50,046 –> 00:37:50,526
We’ve tried.
1323
00:37:50,526 –> 00:37:51,046
We talked to,
1324
00:37:51,126 –> 00:37:51,926
and you look at H.
1325
00:37:51,926 –> 00:37:52,606
Lee Bush, okay,
1326
00:37:52,606 –> 00:37:54,726
Christopher Bush was the number one suspect in the
1327
00:37:54,726 –> 00:37:55,806
Oakland County child killings.
1328
00:37:57,166 –> 00:38:00,126
He was the son of a General Motors executive.
1329
00:38:00,526 –> 00:38:02,846
He lived in Bluefield Hills.
1330
00:38:02,926 –> 00:38:03,326
In the book,
1331
00:38:03,326 –> 00:38:03,646
Everybody,
1332
00:38:03,646 –> 00:38:05,766
he was officially like the main suspect.
1333
00:38:05,766 –> 00:38:06,526
Oh, officially.
1334
00:38:06,606 –> 00:38:07,886
Not only officially,
1335
00:38:08,206 –> 00:38:12,206
but he had his partner in these criminal sexual conduct
1336
00:38:12,526 –> 00:38:13,646
charges, Gregory Green.
1337
00:38:13,646 –> 00:38:15,806
He and Gregory Green were traveling the state,
1338
00:38:17,246 –> 00:38:19,406
basically grooming and raping children.
1339
00:38:19,486 –> 00:38:21,046
I don’t call it molesting anymore,
1340
00:38:21,046 –> 00:38:22,126
brother, because it’s bullshit.
1341
00:38:22,286 –> 00:38:23,206
That’s the thing we use.
1342
00:38:23,246 –> 00:38:26,366
So, yeah, So they were…
1343
00:38:26,566 –> 00:38:26,926
Yeah, Like,
1344
00:38:27,366 –> 00:38:27,966
what do you mean?
1345
00:38:28,046 –> 00:38:29,406
Yeah, absolutely.
1346
00:38:29,646 –> 00:38:30,406
They were they were traveling.
1347
00:38:30,526 –> 00:38:31,486
in the state doing this.
1348
00:38:31,806 –> 00:38:33,966
The Bush family had all kinds of fucking money.
1349
00:38:35,486 –> 00:38:35,726
H.
1350
00:38:35,726 –> 00:38:37,966
Lee Bush was the chief financial officer,
1351
00:38:37,966 –> 00:38:40,446
something like some title like that for North American
1352
00:38:40,446 –> 00:38:41,246
General Motors.
1353
00:38:41,646 –> 00:38:42,286
At some point,
1354
00:38:42,286 –> 00:38:43,086
they relocated.
1355
00:38:43,406 –> 00:38:46,726
Christopher Bush went to the Larosi School,
1356
00:38:46,726 –> 00:38:49,966
where like the children of the Heinz Corporation go
1357
00:38:49,966 –> 00:38:50,526
and all this shit.
1358
00:38:50,526 –> 00:38:51,886
It’s a private school in Switzerland.
1359
00:38:51,886 –> 00:38:52,766
He was from here,
1360
00:38:53,006 –> 00:38:56,926
but for like most of his education was at the Larosi
1361
00:38:56,926 –> 00:38:57,246
School.
1362
00:38:58,526 –> 00:39:00,406
Children of Sheiks and shit like that go there.
1363
00:39:00,486 –> 00:39:00,686
there.
1364
00:39:01,006 –> 00:39:04,206
And H.
1365
00:39:04,206 –> 00:39:08,886
Lee Bush was transferred to Germany to run this Northland,
1366
00:39:09,246 –> 00:39:11,206
to run one of the European division or whatever the
1367
00:39:11,206 –> 00:39:12,846
fuck of GM at that time,
1368
00:39:12,846 –> 00:39:13,966
the financial part of it.
1369
00:39:14,446 –> 00:39:19,166
And I started to get correspondences from people that
1370
00:39:19,166 –> 00:39:21,846
were in those areas where Christopher Bush was living
1371
00:39:22,126 –> 00:39:23,006
as a late teen.
1372
00:39:23,246 –> 00:39:27,046
And he stayed on as a teaching assistant at Lavrosi
1373
00:39:27,046 –> 00:39:27,686
and all this stuff.
1374
00:39:27,846 –> 00:39:29,406
And he was molesting people over there.
1375
00:39:29,926 –> 00:39:31,606
according to some of these emails and according to
1376
00:39:31,606 –> 00:39:32,846
some witnesses and all this stuff,
1377
00:39:32,846 –> 00:39:33,086
right?
1378
00:39:33,086 –> 00:39:34,766
So H.
1379
00:39:34,766 –> 00:39:38,606
Lee Bush is running around Michigan at that time.
1380
00:39:38,846 –> 00:39:41,286
He’s the not only is the he’s the number one suspect
1381
00:39:41,286 –> 00:39:44,166
because his buddy Greg Green got pulled in on a criminal
1382
00:39:44,166 –> 00:39:46,126
sexual conduct charge and dimed on him,
1383
00:39:46,286 –> 00:39:49,006
dimed on Christopher Bush as the killer of Mark Stebbins,
1384
00:39:49,006 –> 00:39:49,806
the first killer.
1385
00:39:50,526 –> 00:39:50,846
And
1386
00:39:52,606 –> 00:39:55,246
But then he allegedly passed a polygraph.
1387
00:39:55,246 –> 00:39:56,046
Well, that’s not true.
1388
00:39:56,286 –> 00:39:58,926
2008, there’s a private polygrapher that says,
1389
00:39:59,086 –> 00:40:02,126
I actually did the pre-polygraph on him with his lawyer
1390
00:40:02,126 –> 00:40:04,686
present, and he failed that polygraph and admitted
1391
00:40:04,686 –> 00:40:05,486
to the killings.
1392
00:40:07,246 –> 00:40:08,206
Do you have that on record?
1393
00:40:08,646 –> 00:40:09,206
that’s on record.
1394
00:40:09,206 –> 00:40:09,486
That’s in,
1395
00:40:09,486 –> 00:40:10,046
that’s in,
1396
00:40:10,126 –> 00:40:10,766
that’s in,
1397
00:40:10,766 –> 00:40:11,326
that’s in,
1398
00:40:11,326 –> 00:40:13,926
that’s in the Kill Jar and we have it on record.
1399
00:40:13,926 –> 00:40:14,446
And not only that,
1400
00:40:14,446 –> 00:40:15,126
but Kathy King.
1401
00:40:15,126 –> 00:40:15,646
Yeah, that’s right.
1402
00:40:15,646 –> 00:40:16,126
Kathy King,
1403
00:40:16,126 –> 00:40:18,206
she’s the sister of Timothy King,
1404
00:40:18,206 –> 00:40:19,966
the, let me do this real quick before we get lost
1405
00:40:19,966 –> 00:40:21,246
in like so many names.
1406
00:40:21,246 –> 00:40:22,206
You gotta sell some shit?
1407
00:40:22,206 –> 00:40:22,486
No.
1408
00:40:22,486 –> 00:40:33,486
So there’s a international pedophilia ring and porn,
1409
00:40:33,966 –> 00:40:35,406
child porn syndicate.
1410
00:40:37,206 –> 00:40:40,486
Is this like some person attached to that commits the
1411
00:40:40,486 –> 00:40:40,926
killings?
1412
00:40:40,926 –> 00:40:41,486
It’s just like,
1413
00:40:41,966 –> 00:40:43,166
of all these sickos,
1414
00:40:43,326 –> 00:40:44,606
this person’s super sick?
1415
00:40:44,926 –> 00:40:46,766
Or do you think it was one person,
1416
00:40:46,766 –> 00:40:47,646
two people,
1417
00:40:47,886 –> 00:40:48,526
three people?
1418
00:40:48,526 –> 00:40:50,126
Was it a gang,
1419
00:40:50,366 –> 00:40:50,846
so to speak?
1420
00:40:51,086 –> 00:40:52,046
So what we know,
1421
00:40:52,046 –> 00:40:54,366
this is why I started talking about Christopher Bush.
1422
00:40:55,486 –> 00:40:58,686
He’s the prime suspect for at least Mark Stebbins’s
1423
00:40:58,686 –> 00:40:59,726
murder, the first murder,
1424
00:41:00,526 –> 00:41:02,846
for many other reasons as well as what I said.
1425
00:41:04,046 –> 00:41:05,726
But oddly enough,
1426
00:41:06,886 –> 00:41:09,526
There’s also other things that link other people to
1427
00:41:09,526 –> 00:41:10,126
the murder,
1428
00:41:10,446 –> 00:41:11,486
okay, like DNA.
1429
00:41:11,766 –> 00:41:13,006
Are they linked to Bush?
1430
00:41:13,566 –> 00:41:13,926
Yeah, that,
1431
00:41:13,966 –> 00:41:14,446
yes.
1432
00:41:14,606 –> 00:41:16,406
So it’s a group series.
1433
00:41:16,406 –> 00:41:16,686
Yeah.
1434
00:41:16,846 –> 00:41:18,166
Then he’s an international thing.
1435
00:41:18,206 –> 00:41:18,686
Yeah, man.
1436
00:41:18,686 –> 00:41:18,966
Okay.
1437
00:41:19,006 –> 00:41:22,206
So you got like somebody else’s DNA and that guy was
1438
00:41:22,206 –> 00:41:23,166
a fucking pedophile,
1439
00:41:23,326 –> 00:41:25,246
but that DNA was found on Mark Stebbins.
1440
00:41:25,406 –> 00:41:27,166
Okay, so he’s linked to Mark Stebbins.
1441
00:41:27,246 –> 00:41:29,246
Then you got Christopher Bush linked to Mark Stebbins.
1442
00:41:29,326 –> 00:41:31,086
When he gets suicided,
1443
00:41:31,086 –> 00:41:33,326
which was they pretended he got suicided,
1444
00:41:33,646 –> 00:41:34,446
there was a suicide,
1445
00:41:34,446 –> 00:41:36,686
but he was fucking marked and there’s no.
1446
00:41:37,246 –> 00:41:38,046
No, Christopher Bush.
1447
00:41:38,206 –> 00:41:39,326
I know I’m getting off track here.
1448
00:41:39,326 –> 00:41:40,526
Let me back up.
1449
00:41:40,606 –> 00:41:41,286
Let me back up.
1450
00:41:41,646 –> 00:41:45,686
Let me back up and say this motherfucker was one motherfucker.
1451
00:41:45,686 –> 00:41:48,126
I’m going to call them number one and #2 and #3.
1452
00:41:48,766 –> 00:41:51,806
Number one gets linked to Mark Stebbins.
1453
00:41:51,806 –> 00:41:53,366
Number 2 gets linked to Mark Stebbins.
1454
00:41:53,366 –> 00:41:54,886
Number 3 gets linked to Mark Stebbins.
1455
00:41:54,886 –> 00:41:55,886
So you have to start saying,
1456
00:41:55,886 –> 00:41:56,926
forget the names.
1457
00:41:56,926 –> 00:41:57,566
Fuck it all.
1458
00:41:57,726 –> 00:41:59,166
Just say there’s three guys,
1459
00:41:59,406 –> 00:41:59,726
right?
1460
00:41:59,806 –> 00:42:01,806
They’re all linked to the murder of Mark Stebbins.
1461
00:42:02,166 –> 00:42:03,566
So it can’t be one of them.
1462
00:42:03,566 –> 00:42:04,126
It can’t be.
1463
00:42:04,126 –> 00:42:05,326
Again, who’s Mark Stebbins?
1464
00:42:05,326 –> 00:42:05,926
He’s the dead,
1465
00:42:05,966 –> 00:42:06,766
he’s the kid who got,
1466
00:42:06,926 –> 00:42:09,646
he’s the very first Ocon County child killing.
1467
00:42:09,886 –> 00:42:11,886
They’re all connected to him.
1468
00:42:11,966 –> 00:42:12,766
Yeah, man.
1469
00:42:12,966 –> 00:42:13,486
DNA?
1470
00:42:13,646 –> 00:42:16,126
Here’s the DNA.
1471
00:42:16,206 –> 00:42:17,726
There’s 3 sources of DNA.
1472
00:42:18,126 –> 00:42:21,006
One of the sources of DNA goes to a guy who’s still
1473
00:42:21,006 –> 00:42:21,406
alive.
1474
00:42:21,766 –> 00:42:24,446
And he’s in and out of prison at Jackson and other
1475
00:42:24,446 –> 00:42:24,846
places.
1476
00:42:24,926 –> 00:42:27,966
His DNA is found on one of the bodies
1477
00:42:28,486 –> 00:42:30,846
Okay, but his answer to that is,
1478
00:42:30,846 –> 00:42:33,086
well, I was always traveling with Christopher Bush.
1479
00:42:34,606 –> 00:42:37,006
So what the police haven’t done,
1480
00:42:37,006 –> 00:42:39,406
he was a 15 or 16 year old at the time of the killings.
1481
00:42:39,406 –> 00:42:41,726
He was a molestation victim of Christopher Bush.
1482
00:42:42,686 –> 00:42:44,446
He was always in Christopher Bush’s car.
1483
00:42:44,446 –> 00:42:45,446
He was groomed and
1484
00:42:45,886 –> 00:42:48,046
made into some sort of version of an on-again,
1485
00:42:48,046 –> 00:42:49,966
off-again boyfriend of Christopher Bush who was in
1486
00:42:49,966 –> 00:42:50,806
his 20s or something.
1487
00:42:50,806 –> 00:42:52,526
Does he admit to this,
1488
00:42:52,526 –> 00:42:53,486
Jackson prison guy?
1489
00:42:53,566 –> 00:42:55,006
Yeah, he admits to all that.
1490
00:42:55,086 –> 00:42:55,606
Okay, right.
1491
00:42:55,606 –> 00:42:57,486
He says, I don’t know nothing about the killings.
1492
00:42:57,486 –> 00:42:57,886
Right.
1493
00:42:58,046 –> 00:43:00,046
But his DNA was on the fucking body.
1494
00:43:00,806 –> 00:43:01,406
And he says,
1495
00:43:01,406 –> 00:43:03,166
I must have been from Christopher Bush’s car.
1496
00:43:03,366 –> 00:43:04,606
Let me not get sidetracked though,
1497
00:43:04,606 –> 00:43:05,886
because it’s a fucking rabbit hole.
1498
00:43:06,046 –> 00:43:06,846
The point is,
1499
00:43:07,246 –> 00:43:10,046
Christopher Bush then gets linked to Frank Sheldon.
1500
00:43:10,366 –> 00:43:10,686
How?
1501
00:43:11,566 –> 00:43:12,446
Through police.
1502
00:43:13,166 –> 00:43:14,046
Now, I wasn’t there,
1503
00:43:14,046 –> 00:43:17,486
but the police documents say that Christopher Bush
1504
00:43:17,486 –> 00:43:20,046
was in this company of Frank Sheldon at certain times.
1505
00:43:20,286 –> 00:43:20,846
They also,
1506
00:43:20,846 –> 00:43:25,566
in the same documents where they say they found shit
1507
00:43:25,566 –> 00:43:26,606
on Frank Sheldon,
1508
00:43:27,006 –> 00:43:27,406
you know,
1509
00:43:27,886 –> 00:43:29,606
like here’s a document on Frank Sheldon,
1510
00:43:29,606 –> 00:43:30,526
like a police narrative.
1511
00:43:30,846 –> 00:43:32,246
In that same document,
1512
00:43:32,246 –> 00:43:34,686
or an evidence catalog or whatever,
1513
00:43:34,686 –> 00:43:35,646
in that same thing,
1514
00:43:35,806 –> 00:43:37,406
they talk about Christopher Bush’s,
1515
00:43:37,646 –> 00:43:37,886
they say,
1516
00:43:37,886 –> 00:43:38,926
oh, and by the way,
1517
00:43:38,926 –> 00:43:41,806
we also found 18 reels of child pornography in Christopher
1518
00:43:41,806 –> 00:43:43,046
Bush’s cabin or whatever.
1519
00:43:43,326 –> 00:43:46,606
But they’re talking about Christopher Bush in the same
1520
00:43:46,606 –> 00:43:48,886
documents that are supposed to be focused on Frank
1521
00:43:48,886 –> 00:43:49,406
Sheldon.
1522
00:43:49,966 –> 00:43:51,326
And so there’s that.
1523
00:43:52,606 –> 00:43:53,726
And then we have other,
1524
00:43:53,886 –> 00:43:54,646
and this is the thing,
1525
00:43:54,646 –> 00:43:55,966
this is what we’re trying to do right now.
1526
00:43:56,326 –> 00:43:56,766
I’m going,
1527
00:43:56,886 –> 00:43:57,726
I’m going around.
1528
00:43:58,246 –> 00:43:58,606
Basically,
1529
00:43:58,606 –> 00:43:59,966
I’ve spent nine months writing this book.
1530
00:43:59,966 –> 00:44:02,206
It’s probably done in a month or two.
1531
00:44:03,406 –> 00:44:06,686
And we’re traveling around with the film crew and we’re
1532
00:44:06,686 –> 00:44:09,166
interviewing victims of Frank Sheldon.
1533
00:44:09,326 –> 00:44:11,326
We just, it’s horrific shit.
1534
00:44:11,326 –> 00:44:12,206
It’s huge.
1535
00:44:12,366 –> 00:44:13,326
We spent three hours.
1536
00:44:13,526 –> 00:44:16,566
interviewing a victim of Frank Sheldon the other day.
1537
00:44:16,566 –> 00:44:19,846
We spent another hour interviewing a victim of whatever.
1538
00:44:19,846 –> 00:44:21,966
We’re really doing the work.
1539
00:44:22,006 –> 00:44:23,846
And you’re going over to Europe and everything.
1540
00:44:24,166 –> 00:44:27,526
Oh yeah, these fucking guys just came back from overseas
1541
00:44:27,526 –> 00:44:27,926
in India,
1542
00:44:27,926 –> 00:44:28,166
man.
1543
00:44:28,566 –> 00:44:30,646
Dude, so you’re doing a book and a series.
1544
00:44:30,646 –> 00:44:32,566
Yeah, and here’s the thing.
1545
00:44:32,606 –> 00:44:34,006
And you just finished an Idaho book.
1546
00:44:34,486 –> 00:44:35,366
Yeah, but here’s the thing,
1547
00:44:35,366 –> 00:44:35,606
man.
1548
00:44:36,126 –> 00:44:37,766
I’m actually done after this.
1549
00:44:37,926 –> 00:44:38,486
I’m done.
1550
00:44:38,486 –> 00:44:40,006
I’m going to law school in August.
1551
00:44:41,286 –> 00:44:41,926
I feel like
1552
00:44:43,926 –> 00:44:46,006
This is this people say you’re true.
1553
00:44:46,486 –> 00:44:49,126
I appreciate you saying renowned crime writer or true
1554
00:44:49,126 –> 00:44:50,086
crime writer or whatever,
1555
00:44:50,086 –> 00:44:50,406
man.
1556
00:44:50,646 –> 00:44:51,606
But I did this.
1557
00:44:51,606 –> 00:44:52,446
was an accident.
1558
00:44:52,726 –> 00:44:54,246
I don’t want to do this,
1559
00:44:54,246 –> 00:44:54,646
man.
1560
00:44:54,726 –> 00:44:57,326
I don’t want to fucking talk about child pornographers.
1561
00:44:57,326 –> 00:44:59,886
I don’t want to be on your show talking to these guys
1562
00:44:59,886 –> 00:45:02,246
about this bullshit because it’s the darkest shit
1563
00:45:02,246 –> 00:45:02,646
in the world.
1564
00:45:02,646 –> 00:45:04,046
And that’s how and on the one hand,
1565
00:45:04,166 –> 00:45:05,286
that’s how that shit slides.
1566
00:45:05,286 –> 00:45:06,166
But we need you.
1567
00:45:06,966 –> 00:45:07,886
Or it continues.
1568
00:45:07,886 –> 00:45:08,366
They need you,
1569
00:45:08,366 –> 00:45:08,646
bro.
1570
00:45:08,646 –> 00:45:10,566
I got 500 followers.
1571
00:45:10,646 –> 00:45:11,446
They need people with,
1572
00:45:11,766 –> 00:45:12,566
like Colin,
1573
00:45:12,806 –> 00:45:14,446
who’s got 5 million,
1574
00:45:14,446 –> 00:45:15,966
or you, who’s got the whole world.
1575
00:45:15,966 –> 00:45:18,486
Like, I read Detroit,
1576
00:45:19,166 –> 00:45:20,246
American Autopsy.
1577
00:45:20,566 –> 00:45:22,086
I read Shit Show.
1578
00:45:23,126 –> 00:45:24,806
And I have to say,
1579
00:45:25,846 –> 00:45:30,006
the only reason I’m writing this book is because I’m
1580
00:45:30,486 –> 00:45:31,046
doing it.
1581
00:45:31,046 –> 00:45:32,166
We’re self-funding it.
1582
00:45:32,646 –> 00:45:33,846
And I don’t,
1583
00:45:33,846 –> 00:45:35,766
I’m not working for a big publisher or whatever.
1584
00:45:36,166 –> 00:45:38,766
And I get to write it however the fuck I want.
1585
00:45:39,286 –> 00:45:41,686
And that was inspired by reading your books because
1586
00:45:41,686 –> 00:45:42,166
I thought,
1587
00:45:42,566 –> 00:45:46,246
wait, I’m this guy who sits in Charlie Duff’s chair
1588
00:45:46,366 –> 00:45:47,606
while he’s smoking a cigarette.
1589
00:45:48,006 –> 00:45:52,566
And I’m just like saying shit that I’m passionate about.
1590
00:45:53,366 –> 00:45:56,206
The last book I wrote was very tightly controlled by
1591
00:45:57,606 –> 00:45:58,726
all kinds of things.
1592
00:45:59,166 –> 00:45:59,846
And I just thought,
1593
00:45:59,846 –> 00:46:01,286
I got to do one book that’s me.
1594
00:46:02,166 –> 00:46:03,686
And then I’m out,
1595
00:46:04,046 –> 00:46:06,366
And so that’s what I’m doing.
1596
00:46:07,206 –> 00:46:08,166
I get weird shit.
1597
00:46:08,166 –> 00:46:08,926
I get weird shit,
1598
00:46:08,926 –> 00:46:10,406
brother, from people.
1599
00:46:10,406 –> 00:46:11,286
And this is part of it.
1600
00:46:11,446 –> 00:46:12,646
I don’t like the drama.
1601
00:46:12,966 –> 00:46:14,646
I don’t like none of this shit.
1602
00:46:14,806 –> 00:46:17,686
I got a fucking Instagram message from Corey Williams,
1603
00:46:17,686 –> 00:46:19,846
the top cop on the Oakland County child killer case,
1604
00:46:20,006 –> 00:46:22,806
sends me an Instagram message at 1130 at night in
1605
00:46:22,806 –> 00:46:25,366
Idaho, which is 130 in the morning in Detroit.
1606
00:46:26,646 –> 00:46:27,846
Fucking 9 typos,
1607
00:46:27,846 –> 00:46:29,246
obviously drunk or something,
1608
00:46:29,686 –> 00:46:31,446
telling me I’m a fucking asshole,
1609
00:46:31,686 –> 00:46:32,206
and that I,
1610
00:46:32,206 –> 00:46:35,846
and that I fucking am following this case for the
1611
00:46:35,846 –> 00:46:36,566
money and shit,
1612
00:46:36,726 –> 00:46:37,766
this motherfucker.
1613
00:46:38,166 –> 00:46:40,166
I’ve had no money my whole life.
1614
00:46:40,326 –> 00:46:41,206
I’m not following this kid.
1615
00:46:41,206 –> 00:46:41,926
It’s been 20.
1616
00:46:42,166 –> 00:46:44,006
I started this shit in 2005,
1617
00:46:44,086 –> 00:46:45,446
20 fucking years ago.
1618
00:46:45,606 –> 00:46:48,806
And I got cops drunk messaging me saying I’m in it
1619
00:46:48,806 –> 00:46:49,446
for the money.
1620
00:46:49,606 –> 00:46:50,006
Meanwhile,
1621
00:46:50,006 –> 00:46:52,886
the same cops in charge of this case had fucking,
1622
00:46:52,886 –> 00:46:54,886
what do they make now at 20 years in as a cop?
1623
00:46:54,886 –> 00:46:55,726
100 grand,
1624
00:46:55,726 –> 00:46:56,926
120, 140?
1625
00:46:56,926 –> 00:46:57,966
I don’t fucking know what they make.
1626
00:46:58,166 –> 00:47:00,846
20 years in when you’re up there as a high up detective
1627
00:47:00,846 –> 00:47:01,206
and shit.
1628
00:47:01,686 –> 00:47:02,686
Talk about doing it for the money.
1629
00:47:02,686 –> 00:47:06,246
You got 20 years to solve a fucking case and you don’t?
1630
00:47:07,366 –> 00:47:11,006
I guarantee if I gave you $150,000 a year and said,
1631
00:47:11,006 –> 00:47:14,086
Charlie, your only job for the next 20 years is to
1632
00:47:14,086 –> 00:47:15,846
solve this one fucking murder,
1633
00:47:17,206 –> 00:47:20,006
you’d either solve the murder or you’d end up dead
1634
00:47:20,006 –> 00:47:21,366
before you could get there or something.
1635
00:47:21,366 –> 00:47:23,366
But you certainly wouldn’t be sitting there 20 years
1636
00:47:23,526 –> 00:47:24,006
later going,
1637
00:47:24,006 –> 00:47:25,526
yeah, scratching your head.
1638
00:47:25,526 –> 00:47:26,646
Not only the money,
1639
00:47:26,646 –> 00:47:29,126
but all the police documents in the world at your
1640
00:47:29,126 –> 00:47:29,766
disposal,
1641
00:47:30,166 –> 00:47:32,166
You got the MSP at your fucking disposal.
1642
00:47:32,166 –> 00:47:33,646
You got the FBI at your disposal.
1643
00:47:33,646 –> 00:47:34,646
You got crime labs.
1644
00:47:34,646 –> 00:47:36,006
You got DNA testers.
1645
00:47:36,086 –> 00:47:37,646
You got every witness in the fucking world.
1646
00:47:37,846 –> 00:47:39,686
You got subpoena power,
1647
00:47:39,686 –> 00:47:40,246
arrest power.
1648
00:47:40,566 –> 00:47:42,166
Yeah, and I get a drunk message.
1649
00:47:42,166 –> 00:47:43,766
I get a drunk message in the middle of the fucking
1650
00:47:43,766 –> 00:47:46,006
night from the top cop on this case saying I’m in
1651
00:47:46,006 –> 00:47:46,726
it for the money.
1652
00:47:46,806 –> 00:47:48,086
I’ll show you my fucking taxes,
1653
00:47:48,086 –> 00:47:48,406
dude.
1654
00:47:48,566 –> 00:47:50,246
I made like 45 grand last year,
1655
00:47:50,246 –> 00:47:50,806
if that.
1656
00:47:50,966 –> 00:47:53,286
Like, so my point is,
1657
00:47:54,326 –> 00:47:56,486
I don’t want any part of this shit anymore because
1658
00:47:56,486 –> 00:47:58,326
now I’m getting heat from the cops that worked this
1659
00:47:58,326 –> 00:47:58,806
case.
1660
00:47:58,966 –> 00:47:59,286
Like,
1661
00:48:00,166 –> 00:48:00,886
No, man.
1662
00:48:01,046 –> 00:48:02,326
And not only that,
1663
00:48:02,486 –> 00:48:04,406
but the thing about the kill jar,
1664
00:48:04,406 –> 00:48:05,526
I hit on all this shit.
1665
00:48:05,606 –> 00:48:08,166
Not a single person in the police force or anywhere
1666
00:48:08,246 –> 00:48:09,926
else ever messaged me before and said,
1667
00:48:10,086 –> 00:48:11,286
I think you got this wrong.
1668
00:48:11,686 –> 00:48:14,326
You know, they can’t because they know if they fucking
1669
00:48:14,486 –> 00:48:16,686
try to put a suit on me or something,
1670
00:48:16,686 –> 00:48:17,686
then we got discovery.
1671
00:48:17,686 –> 00:48:18,246
Okay, prove it.
1672
00:48:18,246 –> 00:48:21,206
Give me the 4,000 fucking pages that I don’t have then
1673
00:48:21,206 –> 00:48:22,486
that prove that I’m wrong or whatever.
1674
00:48:22,486 –> 00:48:24,886
Give me the 400,000 pages that you’re sitting on.
1675
00:48:25,126 –> 00:48:28,406
They had somebody try to try to FOIA the full case.
1676
00:48:28,726 –> 00:48:29,286
It was like,
1677
00:48:29,926 –> 00:48:31,366
2011 or some shit,
1678
00:48:31,526 –> 00:48:32,446
they sent them what they said,
1679
00:48:32,446 –> 00:48:34,166
Oh, we might be able to do this.
1680
00:48:34,166 –> 00:48:35,126
Do you want us to go ahead?
1681
00:48:35,126 –> 00:48:36,366
Here’s how much it would cost:
1682
00:48:36,366 –> 00:48:36,406
$780,000,
1683
00:48:36,566 –> 00:48:37,926
thirty-six hours,
1684
00:48:39,766 –> 00:48:43,206
thirty-six dollars an hour for administrative costs
1685
00:48:43,206 –> 00:48:44,566
to make the copies and all this shit.
1686
00:48:44,566 –> 00:48:45,926
I bet you could crowdfund that.
1687
00:48:46,006 –> 00:48:46,446
I bet you,
1688
00:48:46,446 –> 00:48:48,006
I bet you could crowdfund it,
1689
00:48:48,086 –> 00:48:48,566
and well,
1690
00:48:48,726 –> 00:48:49,446
but here’s the thing.
1691
00:48:49,446 –> 00:48:50,166
But then they would just say,
1692
00:48:50,166 –> 00:48:51,126
No, we can’t.
1693
00:48:51,126 –> 00:48:53,686
Well, here’s all the documents ain’t going to be there,
1694
00:48:54,006 –> 00:48:55,086
and it’ll be all redacted,
1695
00:48:55,126 –> 00:48:55,766
redacted,
1696
00:48:55,966 –> 00:48:57,686
and so it’s the oldest freaking trick.
1697
00:48:57,686 –> 00:48:58,686
So, I’m not trying to like…
1698
00:48:59,086 –> 00:49:02,086
I’m not trying to sweat Corey Williams.
1699
00:49:02,086 –> 00:49:02,766
I’m saying,
1700
00:49:03,206 –> 00:49:05,646
look, I don’t even know.
1701
00:49:05,806 –> 00:49:07,526
We’re not accusing Corey Williams of anything,
1702
00:49:07,526 –> 00:49:08,606
just for the record,
1703
00:49:08,606 –> 00:49:10,486
just like just a drunk message.
1704
00:49:10,486 –> 00:49:10,686
Yeah.
1705
00:49:10,686 –> 00:49:12,446
Which I’ll show you if you want.
1706
00:49:12,486 –> 00:49:13,366
Maybe he just can’t,
1707
00:49:13,366 –> 00:49:14,726
maybe he just can’t spell.
1708
00:49:14,806 –> 00:49:15,846
Like, we’ll just say that.
1709
00:49:15,926 –> 00:49:17,606
And, but there’s hostility that’s,
1710
00:49:18,206 –> 00:49:18,766
and it’s like,
1711
00:49:18,766 –> 00:49:19,926
let me do this.
1712
00:49:20,326 –> 00:49:22,006
Not accusing the man of anything,
1713
00:49:22,406 –> 00:49:23,446
not even being drunk.
1714
00:49:23,446 –> 00:49:24,006
It is.
1715
00:49:24,726 –> 00:49:28,166
There’s just heat and hostility surrounding.
1716
00:49:29,126 –> 00:49:31,366
the whole and nothing but the truth of this thing,
1717
00:49:31,366 –> 00:49:31,686
right?
1718
00:49:32,006 –> 00:49:33,046
We’ll do it that way.
1719
00:49:33,206 –> 00:49:34,886
Yes, and I don’t want any part of it,
1720
00:49:34,886 –> 00:49:35,286
man.
1721
00:49:35,446 –> 00:49:36,326
But you got to finish it.
1722
00:49:36,326 –> 00:49:37,206
That’s what you’re here for.
1723
00:49:37,286 –> 00:49:38,726
So what are we doing this afternoon?
1724
00:49:39,526 –> 00:49:40,486
What do you need me for it?
1725
00:49:40,966 –> 00:49:41,886
Well, I mean,
1726
00:49:41,886 –> 00:49:46,086
you have particular insight into the political arena
1727
00:49:46,086 –> 00:49:46,846
here in Detroit,
1728
00:49:46,846 –> 00:49:48,566
and I thought we could walk around a little bit and
1729
00:49:48,566 –> 00:49:50,166
talk about that or drive around a little bit.
1730
00:49:50,166 –> 00:49:51,366
We hear you got a cool car.
1731
00:49:51,606 –> 00:49:53,286
We do what I call a drive and jive,
1732
00:49:53,486 –> 00:49:55,646
where we put you in the car for an hour.
1733
00:49:55,686 –> 00:49:57,246
We put you in the car for an hour,
1734
00:49:57,246 –> 00:49:58,486
and we get some
1735
00:49:58,886 –> 00:50:00,646
some insight into maybe what we don’t know.
1736
00:50:01,446 –> 00:50:03,326
Maybe I’m up here talking shit about things I don’t
1737
00:50:03,326 –> 00:50:04,006
know anything about,
1738
00:50:04,006 –> 00:50:04,206
you know,
1739
00:50:04,206 –> 00:50:05,686
and that’s very fair to say.
1740
00:50:05,686 –> 00:50:07,686
Like, I’m literally just shooting from the hip.
1741
00:50:07,686 –> 00:50:08,566
I do not know.
1742
00:50:08,566 –> 00:50:09,366
Looking for the truth.
1743
00:50:09,526 –> 00:50:10,166
Looking for the truth.
1744
00:50:10,166 –> 00:50:12,566
Like, and I have no journalism degree.
1745
00:50:12,726 –> 00:50:13,686
I never studied,
1746
00:50:13,726 –> 00:50:15,766
in fact, I went to one journalism class at Michigan
1747
00:50:15,766 –> 00:50:16,086
State.
1748
00:50:16,246 –> 00:50:18,246
I saw all these people that they were clean.
1749
00:50:19,126 –> 00:50:20,886
and they were career oriented.
1750
00:50:21,046 –> 00:50:22,006
I was trying to be a poet.
1751
00:50:22,806 –> 00:50:25,406
I was terrified of those people and I dropped out of
1752
00:50:25,406 –> 00:50:27,326
my journalism class because I just couldn’t fit in.
1753
00:50:27,326 –> 00:50:28,246
I didn’t know the score.
1754
00:50:28,486 –> 00:50:29,206
I have no,
1755
00:50:30,486 –> 00:50:30,886
people say,
1756
00:50:30,886 –> 00:50:33,926
well, have you vetted that source or vetted that source?
1757
00:50:33,926 –> 00:50:36,566
Like, I’m not even saying I’ve vetted all my sources.
1758
00:50:36,646 –> 00:50:37,366
I’m just saying,
1759
00:50:37,766 –> 00:50:39,486
I talked to a guy out here and he said this.
1760
00:50:39,486 –> 00:50:41,246
When you talk to a guy on the street in front of his
1761
00:50:41,246 –> 00:50:41,846
burning house,
1762
00:50:42,046 –> 00:50:43,606
do you have to vet him first before you?
1763
00:50:44,326 –> 00:50:44,966
roll the tape,
1764
00:50:45,206 –> 00:50:48,206
like I’m not trying to say this is the 100,000%
1765
00:50:48,206 –> 00:50:48,966
truth.
1766
00:50:49,126 –> 00:50:51,886
What I am saying though is that it’s the truth as it’s
1767
00:50:51,886 –> 00:50:54,206
been told to me or as the documents say or as the
1768
00:50:54,206 –> 00:50:54,566
whatever.
1769
00:50:54,566 –> 00:50:55,606
If I’m missing something,
1770
00:50:55,766 –> 00:50:56,566
fucking tell me.
1771
00:50:56,726 –> 00:51:00,246
And I might be missing something politically or about
1772
00:51:00,246 –> 00:51:03,326
the workings of prosecution and shit like that.
1773
00:51:03,326 –> 00:51:04,646
And this, you know,
1774
00:51:04,646 –> 00:51:06,806
I just thought we’re coming to Detroit.
1775
00:51:06,806 –> 00:51:07,926
We talked to George Hunter.
1776
00:51:09,686 –> 00:51:10,166
He’s great,
1777
00:51:10,166 –> 00:51:10,326
man.
1778
00:51:10,326 –> 00:51:11,126
He’s such a great guy.
1779
00:51:11,126 –> 00:51:13,366
That dude grew up in the Cats Corridor during this
1780
00:51:13,366 –> 00:51:13,686
time.
1781
00:51:13,686 –> 00:51:15,206
He knew these pedophiles.
1782
00:51:15,286 –> 00:51:17,046
Yeah, and I looked at his book,
1783
00:51:17,046 –> 00:51:18,206
Monsters in the Corridor.
1784
00:51:18,206 –> 00:51:18,886
And it’s right here.
1785
00:51:19,366 –> 00:51:19,846
Oh, awesome.
1786
00:51:19,846 –> 00:51:20,086
Yeah.
1787
00:51:20,086 –> 00:51:20,486
And it was,
1788
00:51:20,486 –> 00:51:21,366
let’s pitch that there.
1789
00:51:21,806 –> 00:51:22,126
Exactly.
1790
00:51:22,126 –> 00:51:23,126
Monsters in the Corridor,
1791
00:51:23,126 –> 00:51:23,926
George Hunter.
1792
00:51:24,006 –> 00:51:26,166
Yeah, there’s a lot of good information in that book.
1793
00:51:26,246 –> 00:51:28,086
And you can tell that it’s like,
1794
00:51:28,086 –> 00:51:30,166
he didn’t write that book to make it killing.
1795
00:51:30,246 –> 00:51:31,326
I think he self-published it,
1796
00:51:31,446 –> 00:51:32,246
but it’s like,
1797
00:51:32,486 –> 00:51:33,286
because he had to.
1798
00:51:33,286 –> 00:51:34,966
He had to get it out.
1799
00:51:34,966 –> 00:51:35,566
He had to,
1800
00:51:35,566 –> 00:51:35,846
yeah.
1801
00:51:36,086 –> 00:51:37,846
So, and it’s like,
1802
00:51:37,846 –> 00:51:38,526
so we walked around
1803
00:51:38,966 –> 00:51:41,846
a couple of hours,
1804
00:51:41,886 –> 00:51:43,366
and that was that great beagle,
1805
00:51:43,366 –> 00:51:44,246
that dog of his.
1806
00:51:44,806 –> 00:51:45,206
We talked.
1807
00:51:45,206 –> 00:51:46,406
It comes back to the Beagles.
1808
00:51:46,406 –> 00:51:48,646
I talked to Scott Bernstein on the phone.
1809
00:51:48,646 –> 00:51:49,846
We didn’t interview him for the show,
1810
00:51:49,846 –> 00:51:50,966
but I talked to him on the phone.
1811
00:51:52,886 –> 00:51:54,086
You know, I just thought we’re coming to Detroit.
1812
00:51:54,086 –> 00:51:55,206
We’ve got to talk to Charlie Duff.
1813
00:51:55,206 –> 00:51:56,726
I think maybe he’ll answer my message.
1814
00:51:56,726 –> 00:51:58,326
So I texted him,
1815
00:51:59,366 –> 00:51:59,926
texted you,
1816
00:51:59,966 –> 00:52:00,206
and
1817
00:52:01,126 –> 00:52:04,326
But you got some busy beaver hipster working for you
1818
00:52:04,326 –> 00:52:04,806
too, man.
1819
00:52:04,806 –> 00:52:06,566
If you know the LA type guy.
1820
00:52:07,566 –> 00:52:08,166
Trick shifting,
1821
00:52:08,166 –> 00:52:08,486
Brian.
1822
00:52:09,206 –> 00:52:09,886
Specifically,
1823
00:52:09,886 –> 00:52:10,686
we’ll get back to me.
1824
00:52:10,846 –> 00:52:11,606
I’m just like,
1825
00:52:11,646 –> 00:52:12,446
I talked to you guy.
1826
00:52:12,446 –> 00:52:14,566
I talked to the guy and it’s all going to be good.
1827
00:52:14,566 –> 00:52:16,246
Yeah, that’s what that’s the thing is they’re telling
1828
00:52:16,246 –> 00:52:16,646
me.
1829
00:52:17,046 –> 00:52:19,366
This is why you have a guy because it’s like,
1830
00:52:19,366 –> 00:52:20,326
I can’t do that shit.
1831
00:52:20,486 –> 00:52:21,526
I don’t know how to fucking.
1832
00:52:21,966 –> 00:52:22,646
press people.
1833
00:52:22,966 –> 00:52:24,006
I don’t know how to,
1834
00:52:24,006 –> 00:52:25,046
like even just little press,
1835
00:52:25,046 –> 00:52:25,446
George said,
1836
00:52:25,446 –> 00:52:26,646
can we do it at 5?
1837
00:52:26,646 –> 00:52:27,126
And I was like,
1838
00:52:27,606 –> 00:52:28,726
oh shit, I think they want to do it at 3,
1839
00:52:28,726 –> 00:52:29,526
but I’m not going to tell them.
1840
00:52:29,686 –> 00:52:31,726
And so can you get a hold of George?
1841
00:52:31,726 –> 00:52:32,886
Because I’m not that guy.
1842
00:52:32,966 –> 00:52:33,606
I’ll just say,
1843
00:52:33,606 –> 00:52:34,686
sure, whatever you want.
1844
00:52:34,766 –> 00:52:36,966
Because I just don’t want to press people.
1845
00:52:37,046 –> 00:52:39,166
But you guys are good.
1846
00:52:39,166 –> 00:52:40,486
I mean, they want to work with you.
1847
00:52:40,486 –> 00:52:41,086
They’re not like,
1848
00:52:41,086 –> 00:52:41,886
it’s got to be 3 o’clock.
1849
00:52:41,886 –> 00:52:42,206
And I’m like,
1850
00:52:42,206 –> 00:52:43,126
I don’t give a fuck.
1851
00:52:43,126 –> 00:52:44,326
I’m busy at 3,
1852
00:52:44,326 –> 00:52:44,566
man.
1853
00:52:45,686 –> 00:52:47,206
It’s raining and I want a knish.
1854
00:52:50,206 –> 00:52:52,286
But I said a lot of shit here that’s probably going
1855
00:52:52,286 –> 00:52:52,966
to come back to haunt me.
1856
00:52:52,966 –> 00:52:53,846
But I mean,
1857
00:52:53,846 –> 00:52:54,646
the fact is,
1858
00:52:54,726 –> 00:53:00,046
all of all of what I have said is true to the best
1859
00:53:00,046 –> 00:53:00,886
of my knowledge,
1860
00:53:01,366 –> 00:53:01,926
your honor.
1861
00:53:02,206 –> 00:53:02,806
So I mean,
1862
00:53:03,046 –> 00:53:07,686
the kill jar that’s that came out in 18.
1863
00:53:07,886 –> 00:53:10,726
I mean, you haven’t been sued.
1864
00:53:10,726 –> 00:53:12,486
You haven’t been questioned.
1865
00:53:13,806 –> 00:53:15,126
That’s seven years ago.
1866
00:53:15,486 –> 00:53:16,326
It’s interesting.
1867
00:53:16,486 –> 00:53:20,166
I mean, you’re doing yourself a disservice.
1868
00:53:20,886 –> 00:53:22,086
You do do the work.
1869
00:53:22,246 –> 00:53:24,286
Like, he’s asking,
1870
00:53:24,286 –> 00:53:25,406
did you reach out to the victim?
1871
00:53:25,406 –> 00:53:26,446
Did you reach out to the family?
1872
00:53:26,446 –> 00:53:27,046
Oh, yes, indeed,
1873
00:53:27,046 –> 00:53:27,326
I did.
1874
00:53:27,326 –> 00:53:28,926
Did you cross-check it with the documents?
1875
00:53:28,926 –> 00:53:29,686
Oh, yes, I did.
1876
00:53:29,846 –> 00:53:32,246
Did you go to Europe and check with it?
1877
00:53:32,246 –> 00:53:33,126
Oh, yes, I did.
1878
00:53:33,366 –> 00:53:35,126
There’s not more that you can do.
1879
00:53:35,526 –> 00:53:35,686
Yeah.
1880
00:53:35,686 –> 00:53:36,406
You know what I mean?
1881
00:53:36,566 –> 00:53:36,806
Yeah.
1882
00:53:36,886 –> 00:53:39,966
It’s just making a leap that doesn’t exist.
1883
00:53:39,966 –> 00:53:41,526
It’s very easy.
1884
00:53:41,846 –> 00:53:43,166
Journalism is very easy.
1885
00:53:43,166 –> 00:53:44,966
It’s just like being an investigator or a lawyer.
1886
00:53:45,366 –> 00:53:48,726
But then there’s what people lack that you do have.
1887
00:53:49,326 –> 00:53:52,486
didn’t fit in because it’s corporate journalism J-school,
1888
00:53:52,806 –> 00:53:53,846
is you got heart,
1889
00:53:54,406 –> 00:53:54,646
you know,
1890
00:53:54,686 –> 00:53:55,766
you got a point of view.
1891
00:53:55,926 –> 00:53:58,406
I remember when I was in journalism school and I was
1892
00:53:58,406 –> 00:53:59,126
gonna drop out.
1893
00:53:59,526 –> 00:54:01,246
I’m like, this is complete horseshit,
1894
00:54:01,246 –> 00:54:02,086
I’m not doing this.
1895
00:54:02,646 –> 00:54:04,326
You know, I was like 28 years old.
1896
00:54:04,326 –> 00:54:05,686
I’m like, I thought it’d be different.
1897
00:54:06,326 –> 00:54:09,446
And then my mentor,
1898
00:54:09,446 –> 00:54:10,406
Lydia Chavez,
1899
00:54:10,406 –> 00:54:13,446
she, after you do fire on the 700 block and they teach
1900
00:54:13,446 –> 00:54:14,406
you how to do documents,
1901
00:54:14,806 –> 00:54:15,686
she came in with a,
1902
00:54:16,406 –> 00:54:19,486
series written by a guy named Barry Birak and it was
1903
00:54:19,486 –> 00:54:24,486
in the height of the crack blizzard in New York and
1904
00:54:24,486 –> 00:54:26,646
He hung out with crackheads and he lived in the the
1905
00:54:26,646 –> 00:54:28,846
abandoned tenements and you know went with him to
1906
00:54:28,846 –> 00:54:32,086
go get help and you know even in the middle of it
1907
00:54:32,246 –> 00:54:37,486
as as the the writer puts himself in it and he’s Wants
1908
00:54:37,486 –> 00:54:37,926
to try it.
1909
00:54:38,006 –> 00:54:38,926
He wants to try crack.
1910
00:54:38,926 –> 00:54:39,966
What’s this all about,
1911
00:54:40,006 –> 00:54:40,206
you know,
1912
00:54:40,206 –> 00:54:46,006
and then there’s just a a passage About his
1913
00:54:47,126 –> 00:54:48,566
struggle, you know what I’m saying,
1914
00:54:48,566 –> 00:54:49,126
with this.
1915
00:54:49,526 –> 00:54:52,566
And I got this and you got the first person in it.
1916
00:54:52,966 –> 00:54:53,366
And I said,
1917
00:54:53,366 –> 00:54:56,886
this, this is what I’m talking about,
1918
00:54:56,886 –> 00:54:57,086
you know,
1919
00:54:57,086 –> 00:54:58,486
and it changed my whole life.
1920
00:54:58,486 –> 00:54:59,926
Now, fast forward,
1921
00:55:00,566 –> 00:55:01,206
they got me,
1922
00:55:01,326 –> 00:55:02,086
I don’t fit in,
1923
00:55:02,086 –> 00:55:02,886
I’m at the New York Times,
1924
00:55:02,886 –> 00:55:03,486
I got lucky.
1925
00:55:03,486 –> 00:55:05,526
It’s the only offer I got for an internship and they
1926
00:55:05,526 –> 00:55:06,646
stick me out in Queens.
1927
00:55:06,806 –> 00:55:07,606
Nobody wants to be,
1928
00:55:07,606 –> 00:55:08,846
everybody wants to be in Manhattan,
1929
00:55:08,846 –> 00:55:09,046
you know.
1930
00:55:10,046 –> 00:55:12,326
And I’m working and I’m chugging and I’m cranking them.
1931
00:55:13,206 –> 00:55:13,606
And
1932
00:55:14,606 –> 00:55:16,806
A new guy that they hired walks in.
1933
00:55:17,526 –> 00:55:19,366
His wife’s a bigwig there and they’re waiting for the
1934
00:55:19,366 –> 00:55:20,806
India Bureau to open up.
1935
00:55:20,806 –> 00:55:22,326
So they stick him in Queens,
1936
00:55:22,566 –> 00:55:22,886
right?
1937
00:55:22,926 –> 00:55:26,246
And it’s Barry fucking Burak.
1938
00:55:26,286 –> 00:55:28,046
I’m like, oh my God,
1939
00:55:28,046 –> 00:55:30,006
dude, you don’t know what you mean to me.
1940
00:55:30,006 –> 00:55:34,206
I will carry your bags and life’s just funny circle
1941
00:55:34,206 –> 00:55:34,606
like that.
1942
00:55:34,606 –> 00:55:35,006
So, you know,
1943
00:55:35,006 –> 00:55:35,566
you keep going,
1944
00:55:35,566 –> 00:55:36,246
whatever you need.
1945
00:55:36,246 –> 00:55:40,806
I’m here to help you get to the truth because not only
1946
00:55:40,886 –> 00:55:42,126
and specifically in Michigan,
1947
00:55:42,126 –> 00:55:43,206
but apparently around the world,
1948
00:55:43,206 –> 00:55:44,246
people want the answer.
1949
00:55:44,686 –> 00:55:47,206
and you’ll give it the best of your ability and nothing
1950
00:55:47,206 –> 00:55:47,606
more.
1951
00:55:48,246 –> 00:55:48,566
Right?
1952
00:55:48,886 –> 00:55:49,686
Yeah, right on there.
1953
00:55:49,686 –> 00:55:49,966
All right,
1954
00:55:49,966 –> 00:55:50,126
man.
1955
00:55:50,126 –> 00:55:50,686
Well spoken.
1956
00:55:50,686 –> 00:55:50,966
All right,
1957
00:55:50,966 –> 00:55:51,326
brother.
1958
00:55:51,326 –> 00:55:52,486
Where are you going to law school?
1959
00:55:53,206 –> 00:55:54,086
University of Idaho,
1960
00:55:54,086 –> 00:55:56,206
where these kids were killed.
1961
00:55:57,366 –> 00:55:58,886
There’s a campus in Boise,
1962
00:55:58,886 –> 00:55:59,686
and that’s where I’ll be.
1963
00:56:00,206 –> 00:56:00,566
That’s awesome.
1964
00:56:00,606 –> 00:56:00,806
All right.
1965
00:56:01,646 –> 00:56:01,846
Right.
1966
00:56:01,926 –> 00:56:03,526
And we put him in the trunk.
1967
00:56:04,886 –> 00:56:05,486
We’re driving around.
1968
00:56:05,486 –> 00:56:05,926
Those legs.
1969
00:56:06,046 –> 00:56:06,886
God, those.
1970
00:56:07,126 –> 00:56:07,926
I mean, I don’t.
1971
00:56:07,926 –> 00:56:08,726
I just met this guy.
1972
00:56:09,206 –> 00:56:09,526
I know.
1973
00:56:09,566 –> 00:56:10,046
He looks like.
1974
00:56:10,406 –> 00:56:11,206
But I know.
1975
00:56:11,566 –> 00:56:12,726
brown turkey leg.
1976
00:56:12,726 –> 00:56:13,646
I was just going to say,
1977
00:56:13,646 –> 00:56:14,366
I know he’s somebody.
1978
00:56:14,366 –> 00:56:15,286
I don’t know what’s going on.
1979
00:56:15,326 –> 00:56:16,326
I don’t know who he is,
1980
00:56:16,326 –> 00:56:17,766
but he owns something around here.
1981
00:56:19,286 –> 00:56:20,886
That’s the Tommy Hearns a politic.
1982
00:56:21,286 –> 00:56:22,006
That’s the hitman.
1983
00:56:22,246 –> 00:56:23,526
Well, I was going to call him a cardi.
1984
00:56:24,486 –> 00:56:24,646
yeah.
1985
00:56:24,726 –> 00:56:26,486
like a 97 won the ticket.
1986
00:56:26,886 –> 00:56:27,766
One of their guys,
1987
00:56:27,766 –> 00:56:28,846
he’s overdoing it.
1988
00:56:28,846 –> 00:56:29,286
It’s like,
1989
00:56:29,406 –> 00:56:30,406
he’s got brackets.
1990
00:56:30,646 –> 00:56:33,286
The toughest athlete in the history of Detroit,
1991
00:56:33,606 –> 00:56:33,846
right?
1992
00:56:34,086 –> 00:56:36,326
Just straight up bar fight.
1993
00:56:36,766 –> 00:56:37,446
And so, you know,
1994
00:56:37,486 –> 00:56:38,646
it’s, they’re overdoing.
1995
00:56:38,646 –> 00:56:40,326
It’s one bracket,
1996
00:56:40,406 –> 00:56:43,126
this bracket right now that they’re pitching is Adamakinsu
1997
00:56:43,126 –> 00:56:44,086
versus Ty Cobb.
1998
00:56:44,086 –> 00:56:45,206
Oh shit, get out of here.
1999
00:56:45,206 –> 00:56:46,246
I’m like, what is this?
2000
00:56:46,246 –> 00:56:47,526
It’s Probert McCarty,
2001
00:56:47,526 –> 00:56:48,046
period.
2002
00:56:48,646 –> 00:56:49,646
Well, I would ask McCarty.
2003
00:56:49,646 –> 00:56:51,206
I bet you McCarty wouldn’t even say it.
2004
00:56:51,526 –> 00:56:53,206
Because we’re missing the obvious.
2005
00:56:53,886 –> 00:56:54,886
Like Joe Lewis.
2006
00:56:55,366 –> 00:56:55,526
Yeah.
2007
00:56:55,766 –> 00:56:57,286
Okay, and he’s from Detroit,
2008
00:56:57,526 –> 00:56:57,806
right?
2009
00:56:58,486 –> 00:57:00,646
And the guy that would beat Joe Lewis’s ass,
2010
00:57:00,646 –> 00:57:01,766
in my opinion,
2011
00:57:02,326 –> 00:57:03,366
from Detroit also,
2012
00:57:03,366 –> 00:57:04,806
the only two guys from Detroit,
2013
00:57:05,126 –> 00:57:06,726
is Tommy Hitman Hearns.
2014
00:57:06,726 –> 00:57:07,566
Hearns was my favorite,
2015
00:57:07,566 –> 00:57:07,686
dude.
2016
00:57:07,686 –> 00:57:12,406
The guy got 6 fucking world titles in six weight divisions.
2017
00:57:12,886 –> 00:57:13,086
Badass.
2018
00:57:13,086 –> 00:57:16,526
Tommy fucking Hearns would beat anybody’s ass.
2019
00:57:16,806 –> 00:57:18,246
I bet I met him at a pharmacist.
2020
00:57:18,246 –> 00:57:19,966
What about Marvin Hagler and shit?
2021
00:57:19,966 –> 00:57:20,286
What?
2022
00:57:20,326 –> 00:57:21,166
You’re going to fight?
2023
00:57:21,326 –> 00:57:22,566
Marvin Hagler at a bar?
2024
00:57:23,126 –> 00:57:24,566
I met Hearns at a bar mitzvah.
2025
00:57:24,566 –> 00:57:25,446
Who, Tommy?
2026
00:57:25,686 –> 00:57:26,326
I was 13.
2027
00:57:26,326 –> 00:57:27,886
They had him come in and sign autographs.
2028
00:57:27,886 –> 00:57:30,086
And so I was at a bar mitzvah in Bloomfield Hills.
2029
00:57:30,166 –> 00:57:33,126
I saw him at a Trump rally back last year.
2030
00:57:34,006 –> 00:57:34,486
You did?
2031
00:57:34,526 –> 00:57:36,366
Yeah, he was out there supporting Trump.
2032
00:57:36,486 –> 00:57:37,926
I told him he signed my boots.
2033
00:57:37,966 –> 00:57:38,646
Like I took a boot off.
2034
00:57:38,646 –> 00:57:39,486
I go, Champ,
2035
00:57:39,486 –> 00:57:40,326
will you sign it?
2036
00:57:41,606 –> 00:57:42,486
He’s got the palsy.
2037
00:57:42,566 –> 00:57:43,686
Oh, and his nose is gone,
2038
00:57:43,686 –> 00:57:43,886
man.
2039
00:57:43,886 –> 00:57:46,166
He’s got the palsy and he writes,
2040
00:57:46,886 –> 00:57:47,606
Tommy,
2041
00:57:51,526 –> 00:57:52,326
Hitman, champ.
2042
00:57:52,726 –> 00:57:53,526
Hitman.
2043
00:57:54,726 –> 00:57:55,126
Hearns.
2044
00:57:55,126 –> 00:57:55,606
I’m like, damn,
2045
00:57:55,606 –> 00:57:55,806
man.
2046
00:57:57,206 –> 00:57:59,566
But God, that was the greatest.
2047
00:57:59,566 –> 00:58:01,366
That might have been the greatest fighter of all time,
2048
00:58:01,366 –> 00:58:01,926
dude.
2049
00:58:02,246 –> 00:58:03,806
That arrow was the greatest arrow.
2050
00:58:03,806 –> 00:58:04,246
Wasn’t it?
2051
00:58:04,326 –> 00:58:04,806
Boxing.
2052
00:58:04,806 –> 00:58:06,166
Hagler Hearns.
2053
00:58:06,406 –> 00:58:07,206
Leonard.
2054
00:58:07,206 –> 00:58:07,606
Leonard.
2055
00:58:07,606 –> 00:58:07,766
Yeah.
2056
00:58:08,806 –> 00:58:09,606
Duran.
2057
00:58:10,486 –> 00:58:10,686
Macho.
2058
00:58:10,686 –> 00:58:10,886
Macho.
2059
00:58:10,886 –> 00:58:11,606
Camacho.
2060
00:58:12,006 –> 00:58:12,326
Fuck.
2061
00:58:12,566 –> 00:58:13,046
That guy.
2062
00:58:13,286 –> 00:58:14,726
Six weight classes.
2063
00:58:14,926 –> 00:58:15,326
Amazing.
2064
00:58:17,246 –> 00:58:18,246
That’s all I got to say.
2065
00:58:18,286 –> 00:58:18,646
I mean,
2066
00:58:19,966 –> 00:58:21,126
And Dominican sue.
2067
00:58:21,366 –> 00:58:22,246
Tiny Cobb.
2068
00:58:22,726 –> 00:58:24,486
I don’t, if you ask McCarty,
2069
00:58:24,486 –> 00:58:26,166
you think you could beat Tommy Hearns his ass?
2070
00:58:27,166 –> 00:58:28,406
He’d go maybe on skates.
2071
00:58:29,366 –> 00:58:29,766
On ice, yeah.
2072
00:58:29,926 –> 00:58:31,726
Don’t take any shit away from McCarty,
2073
00:58:31,726 –> 00:58:33,126
and he’s a bad motherfucker,
2074
00:58:33,126 –> 00:58:33,366
man.
2075
00:58:33,926 –> 00:58:35,366
So anyway,
2076
00:58:35,686 –> 00:58:36,326
welcome home.
2077
00:58:36,326 –> 00:58:37,846
Let’s wrap it up and let’s go do the bit.
2078
00:58:37,926 –> 00:58:38,406
Yeah, thank you,
2079
00:58:38,406 –> 00:58:38,646
brother.
2080
00:58:38,646 –> 00:58:39,246
Thanks for coming,
2081
00:58:39,246 –> 00:58:39,446
dude.
2082
00:58:39,446 –> 00:58:40,326
All right,
2083
00:58:40,646 –> 00:58:41,366
see you next week.
